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authorThomas Schwinge <tschwinge@gnu.org>2013-03-06 21:52:20 +0100
committerThomas Schwinge <tschwinge@gnu.org>2013-03-06 21:52:20 +0100
commit12c341b917921eb631026ec44a284c4d884e5de6 (patch)
treec7dc37f605152f5fb6e2d67d6460f78496e3de3d
parent53e5e4c139e1b239760434d10e74addd0e89593d (diff)
IRC.
-rw-r--r--community/gsoc/project_ideas/server_overriding.mdwn10
-rw-r--r--community/meetings/fosdem_2013.mdwn7
-rw-r--r--glibc/debugging.mdwn5
-rw-r--r--glibc/debugging/ld_so_console.mdwn3
-rw-r--r--hurd/debugging.mdwn5
-rw-r--r--hurd/debugging/glibc.mdwn6
-rw-r--r--hurd/libpager.mdwn30
-rw-r--r--hurd/running/distrib.mdwn23
-rw-r--r--hurd/running/nix.mdwn20
-rw-r--r--hurd/subhurd/discussion.mdwn15
-rw-r--r--hurd/translator/ext2fs.mdwn38
-rw-r--r--hurd/translator/pfinet/ipv6.mdwn68
-rw-r--r--hurd/translator/procfs/jkoenig/discussion.mdwn23
-rw-r--r--index/discussion.mdwn3
-rw-r--r--microkernel/mach/deficiencies.mdwn87
-rw-r--r--microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface.mdwn16
-rw-r--r--microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall.mdwn16
-rw-r--r--microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/mach_print.mdwn53
-rw-r--r--microkernel/mach/gnumach/memory_management.mdwn13
-rw-r--r--microkernel/mach/message/msgh_id.mdwn26
-rw-r--r--open_issues/arm_port.mdwn16
-rw-r--r--open_issues/bash.mdwn16
-rw-r--r--open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn121
-rw-r--r--open_issues/dde.mdwn85
-rw-r--r--open_issues/gcc/pie.mdwn10
-rw-r--r--open_issues/git-core-2.mdwn52
-rw-r--r--open_issues/git_duplicated_content.mdwn7
-rw-r--r--open_issues/glibc.mdwn270
-rw-r--r--open_issues/gnumach_page_cache_policy.mdwn29
-rw-r--r--open_issues/gnumach_panic_thread_dispatch.mdwn20
-rw-r--r--open_issues/hurd_101.mdwn25
-rw-r--r--open_issues/libmachuser_libhurduser_rpc_stubs.mdwn14
-rw-r--r--open_issues/libpthread.mdwn346
-rw-r--r--open_issues/mach_tasks_memory_usage.mdwn36
-rw-r--r--open_issues/mission_statement.mdwn11
-rw-r--r--open_issues/multithreading.mdwn90
-rw-r--r--open_issues/nice_vs_mach_thread_priorities.mdwn14
-rw-r--r--open_issues/ogi.mdwn31
-rw-r--r--open_issues/packaging_libpthread.mdwn24
-rw-r--r--open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn429
-rw-r--r--open_issues/pfinet_timers.mdwn17
-rw-r--r--open_issues/pflocal_socket_credentials_for_local_sockets.mdwn26
-rw-r--r--open_issues/ps_SIGSEGV.mdwn17
-rw-r--r--open_issues/rpc_stub_generator.mdwn49
-rw-r--r--open_issues/select.mdwn458
-rw-r--r--open_issues/select_vs_signals.mdwn15
-rw-r--r--open_issues/some_todo_list.mdwn1
-rw-r--r--open_issues/subhurd_vs_proc_server.mdwn54
-rw-r--r--open_issues/syslog.mdwn11
-rw-r--r--open_issues/system_stats.mdwn8
-rw-r--r--open_issues/systemd.mdwn14
-rw-r--r--open_issues/translators_set_up_by_untrusted_users.mdwn229
-rw-r--r--open_issues/virtualization.mdwn2
-rw-r--r--open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn17
-rw-r--r--open_issues/virtualization/remap_root_translator.mdwn44
-rw-r--r--open_issues/vm_map_kernel_bug.mdwn19
-rw-r--r--public_hurd_boxen.mdwn5
-rw-r--r--public_hurd_boxen/installation/darnassus.mdwn170
-rw-r--r--source_repositories/glibc.mdwn5
59 files changed, 3153 insertions, 121 deletions
diff --git a/community/gsoc/project_ideas/server_overriding.mdwn b/community/gsoc/project_ideas/server_overriding.mdwn
index c35d88d..dab5fc9 100644
--- a/community/gsoc/project_ideas/server_overriding.mdwn
+++ b/community/gsoc/project_ideas/server_overriding.mdwn
@@ -1,12 +1,13 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2008, 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2008, 2009, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
-is included in the section entitled
-[[GNU Free Documentation License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
[[!meta title="Server Overriding Mechanism"]]
@@ -57,6 +58,9 @@ for various servers and use cases. It is strongly recommended that the student
starts with (1) as the simplest approach, perhaps augmenting it with (3) for
certain servers that don't work with (1) because of indirect invocation.
+Veriant (5) has been discussed and implemented,
+[[open_issues/virtualization/remap_root_translator]].
+
This tasks requires some understanding of the Hurd internals, especially a good
understanding of the file name lookup mechanism. It's probably not too heavy on
the coding side.
diff --git a/community/meetings/fosdem_2013.mdwn b/community/meetings/fosdem_2013.mdwn
index ac678b5..6b88392 100644
--- a/community/meetings/fosdem_2013.mdwn
+++ b/community/meetings/fosdem_2013.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free
-Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -21,7 +20,11 @@ Bruxelles.
[[!table class="table_style_1" data="""
"Name","Attending","Arrival","Return","Share room with us"
+"Maksym Planeta","yes","","",""
+"Pino Toscano","no","","",""
+"Richard Braun","yes","","",""
"Samuel Thibault","yes","friday 5pm","monday 10am","no"
+"Thomas Schwinge","no","","",""
"""]]
diff --git a/glibc/debugging.mdwn b/glibc/debugging.mdwn
index 6b035c1..00ba69b 100644
--- a/glibc/debugging.mdwn
+++ b/glibc/debugging.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -8,4 +8,7 @@ Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+(!) See also [[/hurd/debugging/glibc]].
+
* [[ld_so_console]]
+ * [[microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/mach_print]] sycall
diff --git a/glibc/debugging/ld_so_console.mdwn b/glibc/debugging/ld_so_console.mdwn
index b3d1762..286fcd6 100644
--- a/glibc/debugging/ld_so_console.mdwn
+++ b/glibc/debugging/ld_so_console.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -15,6 +15,7 @@ example, there's a private `__libc_write`, which you should be able to use for
writing to FD stderr -- but, at early `ld.so` startup, this isn't usable as
`_hurd_init_dtable` is still all zeros, etc. To get you started, here is a
simple [[dl-sysdep.c.patch]] to get access to the Mach console.
+[[!message-id desc="Original submission" "87y5vrpnvi.fsf@gnu.org"]].
Can this be integrated with the other debugging printf functions from
`elf/dl-misc.c` (`_dl_debug_vdprintf`) ([[!taglink open_issue_glibc]])?
diff --git a/hurd/debugging.mdwn b/hurd/debugging.mdwn
index d6e9c8b..f4b5eba 100644
--- a/hurd/debugging.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/debugging.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010 Free Software Foundation,
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
@@ -15,7 +15,10 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
* [[GDB]] -- the GNU debugger
* [[gdb/Backtrace]]s
* [[subhurd]] -- running another Hurd system in parallel
+ * In context of [[glibc/debugging/ld_so_console]]: [[!message-id
+ "20111108190129.750BC2C098@topped-with-meat.com"]]
* [[rpctrace]] -- tracing [[RPC]]s
+* [[microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/mach_print]] sycall
# About Specific Packages
diff --git a/hurd/debugging/glibc.mdwn b/hurd/debugging/glibc.mdwn
index 028d4fe..14140fd 100644
--- a/hurd/debugging/glibc.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/debugging/glibc.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 Free Software Foundation,
-Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013 Free Software
+Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -9,6 +9,8 @@ Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+(!) See also [[/glibc/debugging]].
+
Here are some hints about how to approach testing after nontrivial changes to
glibc have been done.
diff --git a/hurd/libpager.mdwn b/hurd/libpager.mdwn
index d844743..69cf8af 100644
--- a/hurd/libpager.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/libpager.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011 Free Software Foundation,
-Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013 Free Software
+Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -9,6 +9,9 @@ Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+# Design
+
Mach's [[microkernel/mach/external_pager_mechanism]].
Mach [[microkernel/mach/IPC]]'s [[microkernel/mach/ipc/sequence_numbering]].
@@ -17,10 +20,29 @@ Mach [[microkernel/mach/IPC]]'s [[microkernel/mach/ipc/sequence_numbering]].
Library](http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/doc/hurd_5.html#SEC32).
-# Writeback: Writing Out Dirty Pages
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-04
+
+ <braunr> mcsim: is it correct that a pager (as from libpager) object is
+ created per file ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: hello. Yes.
+ <mcsim> braunr: At least this applies to ext2fs
+
+
+## [[open_issues/multithreading]]
+
+### Writeback: Writing Out Dirty Pages
+
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-04
+
+ <braunr> and btw, here is a little update about my roadmap: while reading
+ mcsim's patches, i've got to know libpager a bit more, and i think it's
+ perfectly possible to add writeback throttling without a heavy rework
+ <youpi> good :)
+ <braunr> so i intend to work on that after the pager related patches (large
+ store and neal's one) are merged
-## Related
+#### Related
* LWN, Jonathan Corbet, [*No-I/O dirty
throttling*](http://lwn.net/Articles/456904/), 2011-08-31.
diff --git a/hurd/running/distrib.mdwn b/hurd/running/distrib.mdwn
index 5f54e08..74325e2 100644
--- a/hurd/running/distrib.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/running/distrib.mdwn
@@ -15,6 +15,29 @@ Defunct GNU/Hurd distributions:
[announced](http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=41939&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=0)
March 17, 2003 in the Gentoo forums, but development stopped at some point.
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-15:
+
+ <WhiteKIBA> we are trying to revive Gentoo/hurd
+ <WhiteKIBA> we are using debian as a start
+ <WhiteKIBA> we installed portage on debian and are now bootstrapping
+ the system into a folder
+ <WhiteKIBA> except glibc everything seems fine
+ <_d3f> braunr: http://wiki.rout0r.org/index.php/Gentoo/Hurd/en - if you
+ want to know more.
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-01:
+
+ <WhiteKIBA> natsukao: http://wiki.rout0r.org/index.php/Gentoo/Hurd/en I
+ am working on it
+ <WhiteKIBA> if i can get glibc to compile correctly i can create a
+ stage3 but at the moment it fails
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-02:
+
+ <alexxy> WhiteKIBA: you may be interested in my try to run gentoo/hurd
+ <alexxy> WhiteKIBA:
+ http://omrb.pnpi.spb.ru/gitweb/?p=gentoo/hurd.git;a=summary
+
# Using
diff --git a/hurd/running/nix.mdwn b/hurd/running/nix.mdwn
index 663589f..332fc03 100644
--- a/hurd/running/nix.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/running/nix.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -18,10 +18,24 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
* <http://hydra.nixos.org/job/gnu/hurd-master/qemu_test>
----
-
This QEMU image is not (yet) comparable to NixOS, because the latter provides
extra features, such as whole-system configuration (including services, etc.),
and whole-system transactional update and rollback. It is is cross-built using
Nix, and because of that, it uses per-package installation directories under
`/nix/store`.
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-04
+
+ <braunr> is it possible to use nix ?
+ <braunr> or nixos
+ <civodul> you mean the Nix-based Hurd image?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <civodul> it's currently broken:
+ http://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/gnu/hurd-master
+ <braunr> aw, nixos uses systemd :(
+ <civodul> yeah, but the Hurd image is a different thing
+ <civodul> is uses runsystem.sh™
+ <civodul> (my favorite)
+ <civodul> i've been willing to unbreak it, but now i rather invest time in
+ Guix
diff --git a/hurd/subhurd/discussion.mdwn b/hurd/subhurd/discussion.mdwn
index c4fc047..6e69467 100644
--- a/hurd/subhurd/discussion.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/subhurd/discussion.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -157,3 +158,15 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<braunr> antrik: i've installed the same packages in both the main and
subhurds to be sure
<braunr> and to have the right binary and debugging symbols in gdb anyway
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-19
+
+ <zacts> what is the hurd equivalent of a freebsd jail?
+ <braunr> zacts: i'd say subhurds
+ <zacts> what advantages would a subhurd have over a freebsd jail?
+ <zacts> basically that is
+ <braunr> it virtually guarantees a mistake can't compromise the main system
+ <zacts> ah ok
+ <braunr> in theory, subhurds can run without root privileges
+ <braunr> (but there are currently a few things that prevent it)
diff --git a/hurd/translator/ext2fs.mdwn b/hurd/translator/ext2fs.mdwn
index 13a1d9e..65361ff 100644
--- a/hurd/translator/ext2fs.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/translator/ext2fs.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012 Free Software
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software
Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
@@ -89,6 +89,42 @@ small backend stores, like floppy devices.
<youpi> which can be quite probable
+#### [[libpager]] API change
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-04
+
+ <braunr> youpi: i don't remember exactly your answer when i asked about
+ considering the ext2 large store patch for merging
+ <youpi> there's just an API change that it introduces
+ <youpi> but otherwise I'd say we should just do it
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> I've just checked the API change again
+ <youpi> it's simply adding a notify_on_evict parameter
+ <youpi> and a pager_notify_evict callback
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> I'd say we mostly need to polish this
+ <youpi> ah, there is the same parameter on diskfs_start_disk_pager
+
+
+#### `EXT2FS_DEBUG`
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-04
+
+ <braunr> youpi: do we want EXT2FS_DEBUG defined upstream ?
+ <youpi> I don't really have an opinion on this
+ <youpi> stuffing it in the large store patch is not good of course
+ <youpi> I wonder whether we want it by default.
+ <braunr> it is currently defined by the patch
+ <braunr> (in the debian package i mean)
+ <youpi> I've just seen that yes
+ <braunr> i won't include it upstream, and if we decide to keep this
+ behaviour, we can add a patch just for that
+ <braunr> or a define
+ <braunr> err
+ <braunr> a configure option
+ <youpi> ok
+
+
## Sync Interval
[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
diff --git a/hurd/translator/pfinet/ipv6.mdwn b/hurd/translator/pfinet/ipv6.mdwn
index edd3101..03a5670 100644
--- a/hurd/translator/pfinet/ipv6.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/translator/pfinet/ipv6.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012 Free Software Foundation,
-Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013 Free Software
+Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -94,3 +94,67 @@ Amongst other things, support for [[IOCTL]]s is missing.
<gnu_srs> There is one already:
http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/gsoc/project_ideas/tcp_ip_stack.html
<braunr> personally, i'd advocate resuing code from netbsd
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-23
+
+ <braunr> we're beginning to seriously lack ipv6 though
+ <youpi> what is the actual problem?
+ <youpi> (again)
+ <youpi> lack?
+ <youpi> we do have ipv6 working
+ <braunr> i couldn't have it work with public addresses
+ <youpi> uh?
+ <youpi> I believe it worked for me
+ <braunr> yes i told you a few months back
+ <gnu_srs> braunr reported recently that v6 did not work as expected?
+ <youpi> I don't remember about that (and my inbox neither)
+ <braunr> it was only on irc
+ <braunr> routing would be nice to have too
+ <braunr> the stack can do it but we lack the interface
+ <braunr> anyway, there would be benefits on working on it, but what we have
+ now is fine and again, there are priorities
+ <youpi> braunr: it seems ndp doesn't work indeed, I wonder why, it was
+ working for me
+ <braunr> that's what i found too
+ <braunr> there have been other additions to the ipv6 spec over time, i
+ don't know what else we might be lacking
+ <youpi> ndp is elder
+ <braunr> yes ndp isn't lacking
+ <youpi> and pfinet *does* actually do ndp :)
+ <braunr> that's a different issue
+ <braunr> my debugging session ended in the routing code
+ <braunr> and i didn't investigate further
+ <youpi> braunr: it seems the BPF filter on /dev/eth0 doesn't include IPv6
+ frames
+ <youpi> that'd explain that it worked before but not any more
+ <braunr> oh
+ <braunr> good
+ <braunr> i'd love to assign global addresses to our VMs :)
+ <youpi> ok, it goes through, there is just a remaining multicast join issue
+ <youpi> yep, ethernet_set_multi is empty :)
+ <youpi> ok, enabling ALLMULTI was enough to fix it
+ <youpi> you can ping6 2001:910:1059:2:5054:00ff:fe12:3456 :)
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-13
+
+ <youpi> gnu_srs, gnu_srs1: fyi, I'm having a look at cherry-picking the
+ v6only option from linux
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-23
+
+ <gnu_srs> youpi: From when is the Linux
+ 524354b4d086a4f013343d727eaccb7b4c39eb25 commit (IPV6_V6ONLY)?
+ <youpi> which repo?
+ <youpi> I don't have such commit here
+ <gnu_srs>
+ http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/hurd.git/commit/?id=2b2d7fdc42475019e5ce3eabc9c9673e3c13d89f
+ <gnu_srs> From which release, 2.4.x, 2.6.x?
+ <youpi> it's very old
+ <youpi> 2002
+ <youpi> it's not in the current linux git tree, but in the "history" tree
+ <youpi> I don't remember its url
+ <braunr> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tglx/history.git
+ <braunr> might be even older
diff --git a/hurd/translator/procfs/jkoenig/discussion.mdwn b/hurd/translator/procfs/jkoenig/discussion.mdwn
index e71ea02..4cd4e5c 100644
--- a/hurd/translator/procfs/jkoenig/discussion.mdwn
+++ b/hurd/translator/procfs/jkoenig/discussion.mdwn
@@ -337,3 +337,26 @@ filing these:
https://enc.com.au/2012/09/careful-with-pids/'
<pinotree> ?
<youpi> nope
+
+
+# CPU Usage
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-30
+
+ <gnu_srs> Hi, htop seems to report CPU usage correct, but not top, is that
+ a known issue?
+ <youpi> does your /proc have the -c flag?
+ <gnu_srs> /hurd/procfs -c
+ <youpi> I don't remember which way it works, but iirc depending on whether
+ -c is there or not, it will work or not
+ <youpi> problem being that nothing says linux' clock is 100Hz, but a lot of
+ programs assume it
+ <gnu_srs> seems like htop gets it right though
+ <youpi> possibly just by luc
+ <youpi> k
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-31
+
+ <braunr> both htop and top seem to have problems report the cpu time
+ <braunr> so i expect the problem to be in procfs
diff --git a/index/discussion.mdwn b/index/discussion.mdwn
index 4ac1641..9483791 100644
--- a/index/discussion.mdwn
+++ b/index/discussion.mdwn
@@ -29,3 +29,6 @@ I would like to see the contributions page modified to include hardware needed,
[[Hurd]] and [[Distrib]] are a messy conglomeration of everything and should be
cleaned and re-ordered. --[[tschwinge]]
+
+
+## [[open_issues/Mission_Statement]]
diff --git a/microkernel/mach/deficiencies.mdwn b/microkernel/mach/deficiencies.mdwn
index 9ba6721..b3e1758 100644
--- a/microkernel/mach/deficiencies.mdwn
+++ b/microkernel/mach/deficiencies.mdwn
@@ -528,3 +528,90 @@ In context of [[open_issues/multithreading]] and later [[open_issues/select]].
physical maps (cpu-specific page tables) for user tasks, and stack
tracing (in addition to symbol resolution when symbols are available)
were recently added
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-15
+
+ <braunr> Anarchos: as a side note, i'm currently working on a hurd clone
+ with a microkernel that takes a lot from mach but also completely changes
+ the ipc interface (making it not mach at all in the end)
+ <braunr> it's something between mach and qnx neutrino
+ <zacts> braunr: do you have a git repo of your new clone?
+ <braunr> http://git.sceen.net/rbraun/x15.git/
+ <zacts> neat
+ <braunr> it's far from complete
+ <braunr> and hasn't reached a status where it can be publically announced
+ <zacts> ok
+ <braunr> but progress has been constant so far, the ideas i'm using have
+ proven applicable on other systems, i don't expect the kind of design
+ issues that blocked HurdNG
+ <braunr> (also, my attempt doesn't aim at the same goals as hurdng did)
+ <braunr> (e.g. denial of service remains completely possible)
+ <zacts> so x15 will use the current hurd translators? you are only
+ replacing gnumach?
+ <braunr> that was the plan some years ago, but now that i know the hurd
+ better, i think the main issues are in the hurd, so there isn't much
+ point rewriting mach
+ <braunr> so, if the hurd needs a revamp, it's better to also make the
+ underlying interface better if possible
+ <braunr> zacts: in other words: it's a completely different beast
+ <zacts> ok
+ <braunr> the main goal is to create a hurd-like system that overcomes the
+ current major defficiencies, most of them being caused by old design
+ decisions
+ <zacts> like async ipc?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <Anarchos> time for a persistent hurd ? :)
+ <braunr> no way
+ <braunr> i don't see a point to persistence for a general purpose system
+ <braunr> and it easily kills performance
+ <braunr> on the other hand, it would be nice to have a truely scalable,
+ performant, and free microkernel based system
+ <braunr> (and posix compatible)
+ <braunr> there is currently none
+ <braunr> zacts: the projects focuses mostly on performance and scalability,
+ while also being very easy to understand and maintain (something i think
+ the current hurd has failed at :/)
+ <braunr> project*
+ <zacts> very cool
+ <braunr> i think so, but we'll have to wait for an end result :)
+ <braunr> what's currently blocking me is the IDL
+ <braunr> earlier research has shown that an idl must be optmized the same
+ way compilers are for the best performances
+ <braunr> i'm not sure i can write something good enough :/
+ <braunr> the first version will probably be very similar to mig, small and
+ unoptimized
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-18
+
+ <zacts> braunr: so how exactly do the goals of x15 differ from viengoos?
+ <braunr> zacts: viengoos is much more ambitious about the design
+ <braunr> tbh, i still don't clearly see how its half-sync ipc work
+ <braunr> x15 is much more mach-like, e.g. a hybrid microkernel with
+ scheduling and virtual memory in the kernel
+ <braunr> its goals are close to those of mach, adding increased scalability
+ and performance to the list
+ <zacts> that's neat
+ <braunr> that's different
+ <braunr> in a way, you could consider x15 is to mach what linux is to unix,
+ a clone with a "slightly" different interface
+ <zacts> ah, ok. cool!
+ <braunr> viengoos is rather a research project, with very interesting
+ goals, i think they're both neat :p
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-19
+
+ <braunr> for now, it provides kernel memory allocation and basic threading
+ <braunr> it already supports both i386 and amd64 processors (from i586
+ onwards), and basic smp
+ <zacts> oh wow
+ <zacts> how easily can it be ported to other archs?
+ <braunr> the current focus is smp load balancing, so that thread migration
+ is enabled during development
+ <braunr> hard to say
+ <braunr> everything that is arch-specific is cleanly separated, the same
+ way it is in mach and netbsd
+ <braunr> but the arch-specific interfaces aren't well defined yet because
+ there is only one (and incomplete) arch
diff --git a/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface.mdwn b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..b245188
--- /dev/null
+++ b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!meta title="Interfaces"]]
+
+/!\ Incomplete.
+
+[[!map pages="microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/*"
+show=title]]
diff --git a/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall.mdwn b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..d5fc542
--- /dev/null
+++ b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,16 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!meta title="System Calls"]]
+
+/!\ Incomplete.
+
+[[!map pages="microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/* and !microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/*/*"
+show=title]]
diff --git a/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/mach_print.mdwn b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/mach_print.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..c0b0d0b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/syscall/mach_print.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,53 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-18
+
+ <braunr> youpi: what would you think of adding a debug-related syscall to
+ gnumach so that we have a printf-like tool even in situations where the
+ code can't perform an rpc (i.e. glibc)
+ <youpi> could be useful indeed
+ <youpi> I've found myself having a hard time making some printfs from odd
+ places of glibc :)
+ <braunr> i also suggest we make it unprivileged
+ <youpi> not enabled by default then
+ <youpi> otherwise it's an easy DoS
+ <braunr> well, for now, we don't care much about DoS, but we do care about
+ debugging
+ <braunr> at least until the very core issues we have are understood and
+ resolved
+ <youpi> I usually frown on debugging feature being too open
+ <braunr> me too
+ <youpi> you would always forget dropping one
+ <braunr> that's why i didn't suggest it earlier
+ <braunr> but i'm wasting too much time finding other decently effective
+ ways
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-19
+
+ <braunr> youpi: how about we build this debugging system call in debugging
+ versions only ?
+ <braunr> i suppose you already use such versions for buildds anyway
+ <braunr> MACH_DEBUG is always enabled
+ <braunr> the debugging version only adds --enable-kdb if i'm right
+ <pinotree> check debian/rules
+ <braunr> that, and -fno-omit-frame-pointer
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-21
+
+ <braunr> youpi: concerning gnumach, i've added a mach_print system call,
+ with one argument (a null terminated string) to -dbg kernels
+ (--enable-kbd)
+ <youpi> k
+ <braunr> if it's fine with you, i'll commit it too
+ <youpi> I'm fine
diff --git a/microkernel/mach/gnumach/memory_management.mdwn b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/memory_management.mdwn
index a1d9a99..4e23726 100644
--- a/microkernel/mach/gnumach/memory_management.mdwn
+++ b/microkernel/mach/gnumach/memory_management.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -177,3 +178,13 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<braunr> again, i was just wondering out loud
<youpi> braunr: well, bach & mozart don't have > 1.2GiB mem anyway
<youpi> so it doesn't pose problem
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-12
+
+ <sobhan> can hurd have more than 1GB of ram ?
+ <braunr> sobhan: not with the stock kernel, but yes with a simple patch
+ <braunr> sobhan: although you should be aware of the implications of this
+ patch
+ <braunr> (more kernel memory, thus more physical memory - up to 1.8 GiB -
+ but then, less user memory)
diff --git a/microkernel/mach/message/msgh_id.mdwn b/microkernel/mach/message/msgh_id.mdwn
index a7157a3..ea52904 100644
--- a/microkernel/mach/message/msgh_id.mdwn
+++ b/microkernel/mach/message/msgh_id.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -257,3 +257,27 @@ files.
## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-09-30
<braunr> youpi: hey, didn't see you merged the page cache stats branch :)
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-12
+
+ <braunr> youpi: the hurd master-vm_cache_stats branch (which makes vmstat
+ displays some vm cache properties) is ready to be pulled
+
+[[open_issues/mach_tasks_memory_usage]].
+
+ <braunr> tschwinge: i've updated the procfs server on darnassus, you can
+ now see the amount of physical memory used by the vm cache with top/htop
+ (not vmstat yet)
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-13
+
+ <youpi> braunr: I'm not sure to understand what I'm supposed to do with the
+ page cache statistics branch
+ <braunr> youpi: apply it ?
+ <youpi> can't you already do that?
+ <braunr> well, i don't consider myself a maintainer
+ <youpi> then submit to the list for review
+ <braunr> hm ok
+ <braunr> youpi: ok, next time, i'll commit such changes directly
diff --git a/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn b/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn
index 65a82d9..8a2a037 100644
--- a/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/arm_port.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -260,3 +260,17 @@ architecture.
<matty3269> Well, I have a ARM gnumach kernel compiled. It just doesn't
run! :)
<braunr> matty3269: good luck :)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-30
+
+ <slpz> Hi, i've read there's an ongoing effort to port GNU Mach to ARM. How
+ is it going?
+ <braunr> not sure where you read that
+ <braunr> but i'm pretty sure it's not started if it exists
+ <slpz> braunr: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/arm_port.html
+ <braunr> i confirm what i said
+ <slpz> braunr: OK, thanks. I'm interested on it, and didn't want to
+ duplicate efforts.
+ <braunr> little addition: it may have started, but we don't know about it
+
diff --git a/open_issues/bash.mdwn b/open_issues/bash.mdwn
index 4759807..f6b14a0 100644
--- a/open_issues/bash.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/bash.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2009, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -8,7 +8,8 @@ Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
-[[!tag open_issue_porting]]
+[[!tag open_issue_glibc open_issue_porting]]
+
# *bash* 4.0 vs. typing `C-c` (*SIGINT*)
@@ -45,3 +46,14 @@ After having noticed that this error doesn't occur if starting *bash* with
bash: start_pipeline: pgrp pipe: (ipc/mig) wrong reply message ID
So, there's something different with stdout in / after the SIGINT handler.
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-13
+
+Perhaps completely unrelated to the issue above, perhaps not.
+
+ <tschwinge> bash: xmalloc: ../../../bash/lib/sh/strtrans.c:60: cannot
+ allocate 261 bytes (323584 bytes allocated)
+ <tschwinge> 1.5 GiB RAM were free.
+ <tschwinge> This happened when I did a rever history search (C-r [...]),
+ and then pressed C-c.
diff --git a/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn b/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn
index 5345ed6..83ad81e 100644
--- a/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/clock_gettime.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -23,7 +23,8 @@ applications assume that it is.
What about adding a nanosecond-precision clock, too? --[[tschwinge]]
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-26:
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-26
< pinotree> youpi: thing is: apparently i found a simple way to have a
monotonic clock as mmap-able device inside gnumach
@@ -40,7 +41,8 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-26:
< braunr> sure
< youpi> and that's the way I was considering implementing it
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-09-06:
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-09-06
<pinotree> yeah, i had a draft of improved idea for also handling
nanoseconds
@@ -69,3 +71,116 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-09-06:
<youpi> yes
<tschwinge> And it will forever be a witness of the evolving of this
map_time interface. :-)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-11
+
+In context of [[select]].
+
+ <pinotree> braunr: would you send for review (and inclusion) your
+ time_data_t addition?
+ <pinotree> this way we could add nanosecs-based utime rpc (and then their
+ implementation in libc)
+ <braunr> pinotree: it's part of the hurd branch
+ <braunr> do you want it sent separately ?
+ <pinotree> yeah
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> let me get it right first :)
+ <pinotree> sure :)
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-12
+
+ <braunr> pinotree:
+ http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/hurd.git/commit/?h=rbraun/select_timeout_pthread_v2&id=6ec50e62d9792c803d00cbff1cab2c0b3675690a
+ <pinotree> uh nice
+ <pinotree> will need two small inline functions to convert time_data_t <->
+ timespec, but that's it
+ <braunr> hm right
+ <braunr> i could have thought about it
+ <braunr> but i'll leave it for another patch :p
+ <pinotree> oh sure, no hurry
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-19
+
+ <youpi> braunr: about time_data_t, I get it's needed that it be an array
+ <youpi> so it can be passed by reference, not by value?
+ <braunr> by address, yes
+ <braunr> that's the difference between array and struct
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-25
+
+ <youpi> braunr: why did you want to see time_data passed as pointer, not as
+ struct?
+ <braunr> to microoptimize
+ <braunr> the struct is 2 64-bit integers
+ <youpi> well, we already pass structs along in a few cases,
+ e.g. io_statbuf_t, rusage_t, etc.
+ <youpi> be it written t[0].sec or t->sec, it seems odd
+ <youpi> copying 2 64bit integers is not much compared to the potential for
+ bugs here
+ <braunr> bugs ?
+ <youpi> yes, as in trying to access t[1], passing a wrong pointer, etc.
+ <youpi> or the reader frowning on "why is this case different than the
+ others?"
+ <braunr> well, i'm already usually frowning when i see what mig does ..
+ <youpi> right
+ <youpi> on the plus side, it's only the client side, i.e. mostly glibc,
+ which sees the t[0]
+ <braunr> and the practice established by my patch is to convert to struct
+ timespec as soon as possible
+ <braunr> the direct use of this type is therefore limited
+ <youpi> could we define time_data_t as a struct time_data * instead of
+ struct time_data[1] ?
+ <youpi> (in the.h)
+ <youpi> that would make more sense to define a struct time_data, and pass a
+ pointer to it
+ <braunr> i'm not sure
+ <braunr> the mach server writing guide was very clear about array implying
+ a C array too
+ <braunr> and i remember having compilation problems before doing that
+ <braunr> but i don't remember their nature exactly
+ <youpi> I'm not sure to understand what you said about converting to struct
+ timespec
+ <youpi> what makes it not possible now?
+ <youpi> and what is the relation with being an array or a pointer?
+ <braunr> concerning struct timespec, what i mean is that the functions
+ called by the mig stub code directly convert time_data_t to a struct
+ timespec (which is the real type used throughout the hurd code)
+ <braunr> about the rest, i'm not sure, i'd have to try again
+ <braunr> mig just assumes it's an array
+ <youpi> and why not just using struct timespec?
+ <youpi> (for the mig type too)
+ <braunr> my brain can't correctly compute variable sized types in mig
+ definition files
+ <braunr> i wanted something that would remain correct for the 64-bit port
+ <youpi> ah, you mean because tv_nsec is a long, which will not be the same
+ type?
+ <braunr> and tv_sec being a time_t (thus a long too)
+ <youpi> but we have the same issue e.g. for the rusage structure, don't we?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> so we'll have to fix things for that too anyway
+ <braunr> sure
+ <youpi> making a special case will not necessarily help
+ <braunr> but it doesn't mean new interfaces have to be buggy too
+ <youpi> well, using the proper type in the server itself is nicer
+ <youpi> instead of having to convert
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> i'm not exactly sure where to declare struct timespec then
+ <braunr> should it be declared in hurd_types.h, and simply reused by the
+ libc headers ?
+ <youpi> ? AIUI, it's the converse, hurd_types.h uses the struct timespec
+ from libc headers, and defines timespec_t
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> timespec_t being the internal type whose definition gets done right
+ for mig to do the right thing
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> i see
+ <braunr> so, you'd like a struct of integer_t instead of an array of
+ signed64
+ <youpi> for our current 32bit userland yes
+ <braunr> do you want to make the changes yourself or should i add a new
+ branch ?
+ <youpi> and we'll make that a 64bit struct when we have a64bit userland
diff --git a/open_issues/dde.mdwn b/open_issues/dde.mdwn
index 5f6fcf6..b25e53d 100644
--- a/open_issues/dde.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/dde.mdwn
@@ -33,7 +33,7 @@ The plan is to use [[libstore_parted]] for accessing partitions.
## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-02-08
-At the microkernel davroom at [[community/meetings/FOSDEM_2012]]:
+After the microkernel devroom at [[community/meetings/FOSDEM_2012]]:
<antrik> there was quite some talk about DDE. I learnt that there are newer
versions in Genode and in Minix (as opposed to the DROPS one we are
@@ -109,6 +109,40 @@ At the microkernel davroom at [[community/meetings/FOSDEM_2012]]:
you want. It uses Linux 2.6.26 usb subsystem.
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-15
+
+After the microkernel devroom at [[community/meetings/FOSDEM_2013]].
+
+ <pinotree> youpi: speaking of dde, was there any will among other
+ microkernel os developers to eventually develop one single dde (with
+ every team handling the custom glue of the own kernel)?
+ <youpi> well, there is still upstream dde actually
+ <youpi> in dresden
+ <youpi> nothing was really decided or anything (it was a round table, not a
+ workgroup)
+ <youpi> but conversation converged into sharing the DDE maintenance, yes
+ <youpi> and dresden would be the logical central place
+ <youpi> pb is that they don't have the habit of being very open
+ <youpi> http://svn.tudos.org/repos/oc/tudos/trunk/l4/pkg/dde has a recent
+ enough version
+ <youpi> which macsim confirmed having all the latest commits from the
+ internal repository
+ <pinotree> i see
+ <youpi> so it seems a viable solution on the medium term
+ <youpi> the long term might need a real visible open source project
+ <youpi> but we should probably still keep basing on dresden work
+ <youpi> (better take work being done anywhere)
+ <pinotree> well, if the upstream is not really open, microkernel teams
+ could just fork it and all work on it
+ <youpi> that's what I mean
+ <pinotree> should still be a win than everybody maintaining their own dde
+ <youpi> sure
+ <pinotree> ah yes, i was writing and i'm slow at it :)
+ <youpi> but at least we can try to work with dresden
+ <youpi> see how open they could become by just asking :)
+ <pinotree> right
+
+
# IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2012-02-15
<pinotree> i have no idea how the dde system works
@@ -484,26 +518,17 @@ At the microkernel davroom at [[community/meetings/FOSDEM_2012]]:
<braunr> *sigh*
-
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
<braunr> hum, leaks and potential deadlocks in libddekit/thread.c :/
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
<braunr> nice, dde relies on a race to start ..
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
-
- <braunr> hm looks like if netdde crashes, the kernel doesn't handle it
- cleanly, and we can't attach another netdde instance
-
-[[!message-id "877gu8klq3.fsf@kepler.schwinge.homeip.net"]]
-
-
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-21
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-21
In context of [[libpthread]].
@@ -513,6 +538,40 @@ In context of [[libpthread]].
<braunr> either in netdde or pfinet
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-28
+
+ <braunr> (which needs the same kinds of fixes that libpthread got)
+ <braunr> actually i'm not sure why he didn't simply reuse the pthread
+ functions :/
+ <youpi> which kind of fixes?
+ <youpi> cancellation?
+ <braunr> timeouts
+ <braunr> cancellation too but that's less an issue
+ <youpi> I'm not sure it really needs timeout work
+ <youpi> on what RPC?
+ <youpi> pfinet is just using the mach interface
+ <braunr> i don't know but it clearly copies some of the previous pthread
+ code from pthread_cond_timedwait
+ <braunr> see libddekit/thread.c:_sem_timedwait_internal
+ <youpi> I recognize the comment indeed :)
+ <youpi> I guess he thought he might need some particular semantic that
+ libpthread may not provide
+ <braunr> also, now that i think about it, he couldn't have used libpthread,
+ could he ?
+ <braunr> and there was no condition_timedwait in cthreads
+ <braunr> there is a deadlock in netdde
+ <braunr> it occurs sometimes, at high network speeds
+ <braunr> (well high, 4 MiB/s or more)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-18
+
+ <braunr> hm looks like if netdde crashes, the kernel doesn't handle it
+ cleanly, and we can't attach another netdde instance
+
+[[!message-id "877gu8klq3.fsf@kepler.schwinge.homeip.net"]]
+
+
# DDE for Filesystems
## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-10-07
diff --git a/open_issues/gcc/pie.mdwn b/open_issues/gcc/pie.mdwn
index a4598d1..da95100 100644
--- a/open_issues/gcc/pie.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/gcc/pie.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -13,7 +13,7 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
[[!tag open_issue_gcc]]
-# IRC, freenode, #debian-hurd, 2012-11-08
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-11-08
<pinotree> tschwinge: i'm not totally sure, but it seems the pie options
for gcc/ld are causing issues
@@ -38,3 +38,9 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<youpi> uh
<pinotree> this causes the w3m build failure and (indirectly, due to elinks
built with -pie) aptitude
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-19
+
+ <gnu_srs> pinotree: I can confirm that -fPIE -pie fails and only -fPIE
+ works for mktable in w3m. Still have to check with elinks. What's up doc?
diff --git a/open_issues/git-core-2.mdwn b/open_issues/git-core-2.mdwn
index 2d8ad96..cbf47bd 100644
--- a/open_issues/git-core-2.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/git-core-2.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 Free Software Foundation,
-Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013 Free Software
+Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -16,9 +16,7 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
[[!toc]]
-# Log
-
-December, 2008.
+# 2008-12
On the otherwise-idle flubber:
@@ -57,11 +55,15 @@ Fixing this situation is easy enough:
# On branch master
nothing to commit (working directory clean)
-Still seen on 2010-03-16.
----
+## 2010-03-16
+
+Still seen.
+
-A very similar issue, seen on 2010-11-17. The working tree had a lot of
+# 2010-11-17
+
+A very similar issue. The working tree had a lot of
differences to HEAD.
tschwinge@grubber:~/tmp/gcc/hurd $ git reset --hard HEAD
@@ -92,9 +94,10 @@ differences to HEAD.
Checking out files: 100% (1149/1149), done.
HEAD is now at fe3e43c Merge commit 'refs/top-bases/hurd/master' into hurd/master
----
-2010-12-22, grubber:
+## 2010-12-22
+
+grubber:
$ git remote update
Fetching savannah
@@ -106,9 +109,10 @@ differences to HEAD.
fatal: index-pack failed
error: Could not fetch savannah
----
-2011-06-10, coulomb.SCHWINGE, checking out [[binutils]]' master branch,
+## 2011-06-10
+
+coulomb.SCHWINGE, checking out [[binutils]]' master branch,
starting from an empty working directory (after an external `git push`):
$ git checkout -f
@@ -144,7 +148,7 @@ starting from an empty working directory (after an external `git push`):
# Analysis
-2011-06-13
+## 2011-06-13
Running `git checkout -f` under GDB:
@@ -188,3 +192,25 @@ there are cases where `unlink` apparently returns EINTR, which is not kosher
either. Etc.
Do we have problems with `SA_RESTART` vs. the atomicity of our syscall-alikes?
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-30
+
+ <braunr> hm, let's try to clone a huge repository
+ <braunr> hm, cloning a whole linux repo, and still no problem :)
+ <pinotree> weren't most/all the issues at unpack time?
+ <braunr> i don't remember
+ <braunr> we'll see when it gets there
+ <braunr> the longest part is "resolving deltas", for which ext2fs is
+ clearly the big bottleneck (no I/O, page-cache only, but still)
+ <braunr> pinotree: well, slow, but no error
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-31
+
+ <braunr> fyi, i've tried several checkouts of big repositories, and never
+ got a single error
+ <braunr> youpi: looks like the recent fixes also solved some git issues we
+ had
+ <braunr> i could clone big repositories without any problem
+ <youpi> cool :)
diff --git a/open_issues/git_duplicated_content.mdwn b/open_issues/git_duplicated_content.mdwn
index cbc171a..f0ffad7 100644
--- a/open_issues/git_duplicated_content.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/git_duplicated_content.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -116,16 +116,13 @@ Some more copying:
No further difference.
----
-
$ git-new-workdir git master master
$ diff -x .git -ur tar_master/ master/ > master.diff
$ rm -rf ar_master* && (cd git/ && git archive master) | (mkdir ar_master && cd ar_master/ && tar -x) && diff -x .git -ru tar_master/ ar_master/ > ar_master.diff; ls -l ar_master.diff
$ (cd git/ && git archive master) | md5sum
----
-2011-06-13
+# 2011-06-13
-> [[git-core-2]]
diff --git a/open_issues/glibc.mdwn b/open_issues/glibc.mdwn
index 4111700..425ce82 100644
--- a/open_issues/glibc.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/glibc.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012 Free Software
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software
Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
@@ -385,6 +385,51 @@ Last reviewed up to the [[Git mirror's d3bd58cf0a027016544949ffd27300ac5fb01bb8
<Tekk_> pinotree: undefined
<pinotree> expected, given the output above
+ * `getsockopt`, `setsockopt`
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-14
+
+ <gnu_srs> Hi, {get,set}sockopt is not supported on Hurd. This shows
+ e.g. in the gnulib's test-{poll,select} code.
+ <gnu_srs> Reading
+ http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/Tech/addrinuse.html there might
+ be reasons _not_ to implement them, comments?
+ <pinotree> uh? they are supported on hurd
+ <gnu_srs> not SO_REUSEPORT for setsockopt()
+ <pinotree> that isn't the same as claiming "get/setsockopt is not
+ supported on hurd"
+ <pinotree> most probably that option is not implemented by the
+ socket family you are using
+ <gnu_srs> OK, some options like SO_REUSEPORT then, more info in
+ the link.
+ <pinotree> note also SO_REUSEPORT is not posix
+ <pinotree> and i don't see SO_REUSEPORT mentioned in the page you
+ linked
+ <gnu_srs> No, but SO_REUSEADDR
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-23
+
+ <gnu_srs> as an example, the poll test code from gnulib fails due
+ to that problem (and I've told you before)
+ <pinotree> gnu_srs: what's the actual failure?
+ <pinotree> can you provide a minimal test case showing the issue?
+ <gnu_srs> pinotree: A smaller test program:
+ http://paste.debian.net/237495/
+ <pinotree> gnu_srs: setting SO_REUSEADDR before binding the socket
+ works...
+ <pinotree> and it seems it was a bug in the gnulib tests, see
+ http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=commit;h=6ed6dffbe79bcf95e2ed5593eee94ab32fcde3f4
+ <gnu_srs> pinotree: You are right, still the code I pasted pass on
+ Linux, not on Hurd.
+ <pinotree> so?
+ <pinotree> the code is wrong
+ <pinotree> you cannot change what bind does after you have called
+ it
+ * pinotree → out
+ <gnu_srs> so linux is buggy?
+ <braunr> no, linux is more permissive
+ <braunr> (at least, on this matter)
+
For specific packages:
* [[octave]]
@@ -669,6 +714,198 @@ Last reviewed up to the [[Git mirror's d3bd58cf0a027016544949ffd27300ac5fb01bb8
[[!message-id "201211172058.21035.toscano.pino@tiscali.it"]].
+ In context of [[libpthread]].
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-21
+
+ <braunr> ah, found something interesting
+ <braunr> tschwinge: there seems to be a race on our file descriptors
+ <braunr> the content written by one thread seems to be retained
+ somewhere and another thread writing data to the file descriptor will
+ resend what the first already did
+ <braunr> it could be a FILE race instead of fd one though
+ <braunr> yes, it's not at the fd level, it's above
+ <braunr> so good news, seems like the low level message/signalling code
+ isn't faulty here
+ <braunr> all right, simple explanation: our IO_lockfile functions are
+ no-ops
+ <pinotree> braunr: i found that out days ago, and samuel said they were
+ okay
+ <braunr> well, they're not no-ops in libpthreads
+ <braunr> so i suppose they replace the default libc stubs, yes
+ <pinotree> so the issue happens in cthreads-using apps?
+ <braunr> no
+ <braunr> we don't have cthreads apps any more
+ <braunr> and aiui, libpthreads provides cthreads compatibility calls to
+ libc, so everything is actually using pthreads
+ <braunr> more buffer management debugging needed :/
+ <pinotree> hm, so how can it be that there's a multithread app with no
+ libpthread-provided file locking?
+ <braunr> ?
+ <braunr> file locking looks fine
+ <braunr> hm, the recursive locking might be wrong though
+ <braunr> ./sysdeps/mach/hurd/bits/libc-lock.h:#define
+ __libc_lock_owner_self() ((void *) __hurd_threadvar_location (0))
+ <braunr> nop, looks fine too
+ <braunr> indeed, without stream buffering, the problem seems to go away
+ <braunr> pinotree: it really looks like the stub IO_flockfile is used
+ <braunr> i'll try to make sure it's the root of the problem
+ <pinotree> braunr: you earlier said that there's some race with
+ different threads, no?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> either a race or an error in the iostream management code
+ <braunr> but i highly doubt the latter
+ <pinotree> if the stub locks are used, then libpthread is not
+ loaded... so which different threads are running?
+ <braunr> that's the thing
+ <braunr> the libpthread versions should be used
+ <pinotree> so the application is linked to pthread?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <pinotree> i see, that was the detail i was missing earlier
+ <braunr> the common code looks fine, but i can see wrong values even
+ there
+ <braunr> e.g. when vfprintf calls write, the buffer is already wrong
+ <braunr> i've made similar tests on linux sid, and it behaves as it
+ should
+ <pinotree> hm
+ <braunr> i even used load to "slow down" my test program so that
+ preemption is much more likely to happen
+ <pinotree> note we have slightly different behaviour in glibc's libio,
+ ie different memory allocation ways (mmap on linux, malloc for us)
+ <braunr> the problem gets systematic on the hurd while it never occurs
+ on linux
+ <braunr> that shouldn't matter either
+ <pinotree> ok
+ <braunr> but i'll make sure it doesn't anyway
+ <braunr> this mach_print system call is proving very handy :)
+ <braunr> and also, with load, unbuffered output is always correct too
+ <pinotree> braunr: you could try the following hack
+ http://paste.debian.net/227106/
+ <braunr> what does it do ?
+ <pinotree> (yes, ugly as f**k)
+ <braunr> does it force libio to use mmap ?
+ <braunr> or rather, enable ?
+ <pinotree> provides a EXEC_PAGESIZE define in libio, so it makes it use
+ mmap (like on linux) instead of malloc
+
+ `t/pagesize`.
+
+ <braunr> yes, the stub is used instead of the libpthreads code
+ <braunr> tschwinge: ^
+ <braunr> i'll override those to check that it fixes the problem
+ <braunr> hm, not that easy actually
+ <pinotree> copy their files from libpthreads to sysdeps/mach/hurd
+ <pinotree> hm right, in libpthread they are not that split as in glibc
+ <braunr> let's check symbol declaration to understand why the stubs
+ aren't overriden by ld
+ <braunr> _IO_vfprintf correctly calls @plt versions
+ <braunr> i don't know enough about dynamic linking to see what causes
+ the problem :/
+ <braunr> youpi: it seems our stdio functions use the stub IO_flockfile
+ functions
+ <youpi> really? I thought we were going through cthreads-compat.c
+ <braunr> yes really
+ <braunr> i don't know why, but that's the origin of the "duplicated"
+ messages issue
+ <braunr> messages aren't duplicated, there is a race that makes on
+ thread reuse the content of the stream buffer
+ <braunr> one*
+ <youpi> k, quite bad
+ <braunr> at least we know where the problem comes from now
+ <braunr> youpi: what would be the most likely reason why weak symbols
+ in libc wouldn't be overriden by global ones from libpthread ?
+ <youpi> being loaded after libc
+ <braunr> i tried preloading it
+ <braunr> i'll compare with what is done on wheezy
+ <youpi> you have the local-dl-dynamic-weak.diff patch, right?
+ <braunr> (on squeeze, the _IO_flockfile function in libc seems to do
+ real work unlike our noop stub)
+ <braunr> it's the debian package, i have all patches provided there
+ <braunr> indeed, on linux, libc provides valid IO_flock functions
+ <braunr> ./sysdeps/pthread/flockfile.c:strong_alias (__flockfile,
+ _IO_flockfile)
+ <braunr> that's how ntpl exports it
+ <braunr> nptl*
+ <pinotree> imho we should restructure libpthread to be more close to
+ nptl
+ <braunr> i wish i knew what it involves
+ <pinotree> file structing for sources and tests, for example
+ <braunr> well yes obviously :)
+ <braunr> i've just found a patch that does exactly that for linuxthreads
+ <pinotree> that = fix the file locking?
+ <braunr> in addition to linuxthreads/lockfile.c (which we also
+ equivalently provide), there is
+ linuxthreads/sysdeps/pthread/flockfile.c
+ <braunr> no, restructiring
+ <braunr> restructuring*
+ <braunr> i still have only a very limited idea of how the glibc sources
+ are organized
+ <pinotree> the latter is used as source file when compiling flockfile.c
+ in stdio-common
+ <braunr> shouldn't we provide one too ?
+ <pinotree> that would mean it would be compiled as part of libc proper,
+ not libpthread
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> that's what both linuxthreads and nptl seem to do
+ <braunr> and the code is strictly the same, i.e. a call to the internal
+ _IO_lock_xxx functions
+ <youpi> I guess that's for the hot-dlopen case
+ <youpi> you need to have locks properly taken at dlopen time
+ <braunr> youpi: do you mean adding an flockfile.c file to our sysdeps
+ will only solve the problem by side effect ?
+ <braunr> and that the real problem is that the libpthread versions
+ aren't used ?
+ <youpi> yes
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> youpi: could it simply be a versioning issue ?
+ <youpi> could be
+ <braunr> it seems so
+ <braunr> i've rebuilt with the flockfile functions versioned to 2.2.6
+ (same as in libc) and the cthreads_compat functions are now used
+ <braunr> and the problem doesn't occur any more with my test code
+ <braunr> :)
+ <youpi> could you post a patch?
+ <braunr> i need a few info before
+ <youpi> it'd be good to check which such functions are hooked
+ <braunr> i suppose the version for functions declared in libpthreads
+ shouldn't change, right ?
+ <youpi> yes
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> they didn't have a vresion before
+ <braunr> shall i commit directly ?
+ <youpi> so it should be fine
+ <braunr> well, they did
+ <braunr> 2.12
+ <youpi> yes, but please tell me when it's done
+ <braunr> sure
+ <youpi> so I can commit that to debian's eglibc
+ <youpi> I mean, before we integrated libpthread build into glibc
+ <youpi> so they never had any version before 2.12
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> basically we need to check the symbols which are both in
+ libpthread and referenced in libc
+ <youpi> to make sure they have the same version in the reference
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> only weak references need to be checked, others would have
+ produced a runtime error
+ <braunr> youpi: done
+ <braunr> arg, the version i mention in the comment is wrong
+ <braunr> i suppose people understand nonetheless
+ <youpi> probably, yes
+ <braunr> ah, i can now appreciate the headache this bug hunting gave me
+ these last days :)
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-22
+
+ <youpi> braunr: commited to debian glibc
+ <youpi> btw, it's normal that the program doesn't terminate, right?
+ <youpi> (i.e. it's the original bug you were chasing)
+ <braunr> youpi: about your earlier question (yesterday) about my test
+ code, it's expected to block, which is the problem i was initially
+ working on
+ <youpi> ok, so all god
+ <youpi> +o
+
* `t/pagesize`
IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-11-16
@@ -677,6 +914,37 @@ Last reviewed up to the [[Git mirror's d3bd58cf0a027016544949ffd27300ac5fb01bb8
the fact that EXEC_PAGESIZE is not defined on hurd, libio/libioP.h
switches the allocation modes from mmap to malloc
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-21
+
+ <braunr> why is it a hack ?
+ <pinotree> because most probably glibc shouldn't rely on EXEC_PAGESIZE
+ like that
+ <braunr> ah
+ <pinotree> there's a mail from roland, replying to thomas about this
+ issue, that this use of EXEC_PAGESIZE to enable mmap or not is just
+ wrong
+ <braunr> ok
+ <pinotree> (the above is
+ http://thread.gmane.org/87mxd9hl2n.fsf@kepler.schwinge.homeip.net )
+ <braunr> thanks
+ <pinotree> (just added the reference to that in the wiki)
+ <braunr> pinotree: btw, what's wrong with using malloc instead of mmap
+ in libio ?
+ <pinotree> braunr: i'm still not totally sure, most probably it should
+ be slightly slower currently
+ <braunr> locking contention ?
+ <braunr> pinotree:
+ http://www.sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2006-11/msg00061.html
+ <braunr> pinotree: it looks to me there is now no valid reason not to
+ use malloc
+ <braunr> the best argument for mmap is that libio requires zeroed
+ memory, but as the OP says, zeroing a page is usually more expensive
+ than a small calloc (even on kernel that keep a list of zeroed pages
+ for quick allocations, frequent mmaps() often make this list empty)
+ <pinotree> braunr: mmap allocations in libio are rounded to the page
+ size
+ <braunr> well they have to
+
* `LD_DEBUG`
IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-11-22
diff --git a/open_issues/gnumach_page_cache_policy.mdwn b/open_issues/gnumach_page_cache_policy.mdwn
index 22b0595..5e93887 100644
--- a/open_issues/gnumach_page_cache_policy.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/gnumach_page_cache_policy.mdwn
@@ -771,12 +771,12 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<tschwinge> And set precedence.
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-26
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-26
<braunr> hm i killed darnassus, probably the page cache patch again
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-09-19
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-09-19
<youpi> I was wondering about the page cache information structure
<youpi> I guess the idea is that if we need to add a field, we'll just
@@ -786,3 +786,28 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<braunr> youpi: have a look at the rbraun/page_cache gnumach branch
<youpi> that's what I was referring to
<braunr> ok
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-15
+
+ <braunr> hm, no wonder the page cache patch reduced performance so much
+ <braunr> the page cache when building even moderately large packages is
+ about a few dozens MiB (around 50)
+ <braunr> the patch enlarged it to several hundreds :/
+ <ArneBab> braunr: so the big page cache essentially killed memory locality?
+ <braunr> ArneBab: no, it made ext2fs crazy (disk translators - used as
+ pagers - scan their cached pages every 5 seconds to flush the dirty ones)
+ <braunr> you can imagine what happens if scanning and flushing a lot of
+ pages takes more than 5 seconds
+ <ArneBab> ouch… that’s heavy, yes
+ <ArneBab> I already see it pile up in my mindb
+ <braunr> and it's completely linear, using a lock to protect the whole list
+ <braunr> darnassus is currently showing such a behaviour, because tschwinge
+ is linking huge files (one object with lots of pages)
+ <braunr> 446 MB of swap used, between 200 and 1850 MiB of RAM used, and i
+ can still use vim and build stuff without being too disturbed
+ <braunr> the system does feel laggy, but there has been great stability
+ improvements
+ <braunr> have*
+ <braunr> and even if laggy, it doesn't feel much more than the usual lag of
+ a network (ssh) based session
diff --git a/open_issues/gnumach_panic_thread_dispatch.mdwn b/open_issues/gnumach_panic_thread_dispatch.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..db094f2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/open_issues/gnumach_panic_thread_dispatch.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,20 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!tag open_issue_gnumach]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-10
+
+ <youpi> panic: thread_dispatch: thread a958c950 has unexpected state 114
+ <youpi> hum ):
+ <braunr> ouch
+ <youpi> during a perl build
+ <braunr> TH_SWAPPED | TH_HALTED | TH_RUN
diff --git a/open_issues/hurd_101.mdwn b/open_issues/hurd_101.mdwn
index 6146885..574a03e 100644
--- a/open_issues/hurd_101.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/hurd_101.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -12,7 +12,8 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
Not the first time that something like this is proposed...
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-25
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-25
[failed GNU/Hurd project]
< antrik> gnu_srs1: I wouldn't say he was on track. just one of the many
@@ -39,3 +40,23 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-25
< Tekk_`> under the right conditions
< cluck> antrik: jokes aside some sort of triage system/training ground for
newcomers could be helpful
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-20
+
+ <zacts> so once I have written my first translators, and really understand
+ that, what kinds of projects would you recommend to an operating
+ systems/hurd newbie.
+ <zacts> I am reading the minix book now as I have it, but I'm waiting on
+ getting the modern operating systems book by the same author.
+ <zacts> I was initially going to start working on minix, but their focus
+ seems to be on embedded, and I want to work on a system that is more
+ general purpose, and I like the philosophy of freedom surrounding the
+ hurd.
+ <zacts> I like how the hurd design allows more freedom for users of the
+ operating system, but I would also like to incorporate ideas from minix
+ on the hurd. mainly, rebootless updates of servers/translators.
+ <neal> then you should study how translators work
+ <neal> how ipc works
+ <neal> and understand exactly what state is stored where
+ <zacts> ok
diff --git a/open_issues/libmachuser_libhurduser_rpc_stubs.mdwn b/open_issues/libmachuser_libhurduser_rpc_stubs.mdwn
index 80fe36f..670c82c 100644
--- a/open_issues/libmachuser_libhurduser_rpc_stubs.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/libmachuser_libhurduser_rpc_stubs.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2012 Free Software Foundation,
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
@@ -121,3 +121,15 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
libmachuser and libhurduser? should they be linked to explicitly, or
assume libc brings them?
<braunr> pinotree: libc should bring them
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-25
+
+ <braunr> we should also discuss the mach_debug interface some day
+ <braunr> it's not exported by libc, but the kernel provides it
+ <braunr> slabinfo depends on it, and i'd like to include it in the hurd
+ <braunr> but i don't know what kind of security problems giving access to
+ mach_debug RPCs would create
+ <braunr> (imo, the mach_debug interface should be adjusted to be used with
+ privileged ports only)
+ <braunr> (well, maybe not all mach_debug RPCs)
diff --git a/open_issues/libpthread.mdwn b/open_issues/libpthread.mdwn
index 05aab85..f0c0db5 100644
--- a/open_issues/libpthread.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/libpthread.mdwn
@@ -1170,6 +1170,12 @@ There is a [[!FF_project 275]][[!tag bounty]] on this task.
<braunr> haven't tested
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-26
+
+ <braunr> ah great, one of the recent fixes (probably select-eintr or
+ setitimer) fixed exim4 :)
+
+
## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-09-23
<braunr> tschwinge: i committed the last hurd pthread change,
@@ -1270,6 +1276,17 @@ There is a [[!FF_project 275]][[!tag bounty]] on this task.
<youpi> that's it, yes
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-01
+
+ <youpi> braunr: btw, "unable to adjust libports thread priority: (ipc/send)
+ invalid destination port" is actually not a sign of fatality
+ <youpi> bach recovered from it
+ <braunr> youpi: well, it never was a sign of fatality
+ <braunr> but it means that, for some reason, a process looses a right for a
+ very obscure reason :/
+ <braunr> weird sentence, agreed :p
+
+
## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-05
<braunr> tschwinge: i'm currently working on a few easy bugs and i have
@@ -1459,3 +1476,332 @@ Same issue as [[term_blocking]] perhaps?
<braunr> we have a similar problem with the hurd-specific cancellation
code, it's in my todo list with io_select
<youpi> ah, no, the condvar is not global
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-14
+
+ <braunr> *sigh* thread cancellable is totally broken :(
+ <braunr> cancellation*
+ <braunr> it looks like playing with thread cancellability can make some
+ functions completely restart
+ <braunr> (e.g. one call to printf to write twice its output)
+
+[[git_duplicated_content]], [[git-core-2]].
+
+ * braunr is cooking a patch to fix pthread cancellation in
+ pthread_cond_{,timed}wait, smells good
+ <braunr> youpi: ever heard of something that would make libc functions
+ "restart" ?
+ <youpi> you mean as a feature, or as a bug ?
+ <braunr> when changing the pthread cancellation state of a thread, i
+ sometimes see printf print its output twice
+ <youpi> or perhaps after a signal dispatch?
+ <braunr> i'll post my test code
+ <youpi> that could be a duplicate write
+ <youpi> due to restarting after signal
+ <braunr> http://www.sceen.net/~rbraun/pthreads_test_cancel.c
+ #include <stdio.h>
+ #include <stdarg.h>
+ #include <stdlib.h>
+ #include <pthread.h>
+ #include <unistd.h>
+
+ static pthread_cond_t cond = PTHREAD_COND_INITIALIZER;
+ static pthread_mutex_t mutex = PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER;
+ static int predicate;
+ static int ready;
+ static int cancelled;
+
+ static void
+ uncancellable_printf(const char *format, ...)
+ {
+ int oldstate;
+ va_list ap;
+
+ va_start(ap, format);
+ pthread_setcancelstate(PTHREAD_CANCEL_DISABLE, &oldstate);
+ vprintf(format, ap);
+ pthread_setcancelstate(oldstate, &oldstate);
+ va_end(ap);
+ }
+
+ static void *
+ run(void *arg)
+ {
+ uncancellable_printf("thread: setting ready\n");
+ ready = 1;
+ uncancellable_printf("thread: spin until cancellation is sent\n");
+
+ while (!cancelled)
+ sched_yield();
+
+ uncancellable_printf("thread: locking mutex\n");
+ pthread_mutex_lock(&mutex);
+ uncancellable_printf("thread: waiting for predicate\n");
+
+ while (!predicate)
+ pthread_cond_wait(&cond, &mutex);
+
+ uncancellable_printf("thread: unlocking mutex\n");
+ pthread_mutex_unlock(&mutex);
+ uncancellable_printf("thread: exit\n");
+ return NULL;
+ }
+
+ int
+ main(int argc, char *argv[])
+ {
+ pthread_t thread;
+
+ uncancellable_printf("main: create thread\n");
+ pthread_create(&thread, NULL, run, NULL);
+ uncancellable_printf("main: spin until thread is ready\n");
+
+ while (!ready)
+ sched_yield();
+
+ uncancellable_printf("main: sending cancellation\n");
+ pthread_cancel(thread);
+ uncancellable_printf("main: setting cancelled\n");
+ cancelled = 1;
+ uncancellable_printf("main: joining thread\n");
+ pthread_join(thread, NULL);
+ uncancellable_printf("main: exit\n");
+ return EXIT_SUCCESS;
+ }
+ <braunr> youpi: i'd see two calls to write, the second because of a signal,
+ as normal, as long as the second call resumes, but not restarts after
+ finishing :/
+ <braunr> or restarts because nothing was done (or everything was entirely
+ rolled back)
+ <youpi> well, with an RPC you may not be sure whether it's finished or not
+ <braunr> ah
+ <youpi> we don't really have rollback
+ <braunr> i don't really see the difference with a syscall there
+ <youpi> the kernel controls the interruption in the case of the syscall
+ <braunr> except that write is normally atomic if i'm right
+ <youpi> it can't happen on the way back to userland
+ <braunr> but that could be exactly the same with RPCs
+ <youpi> while perhaps it can happen on the mach_msg back to userland
+ <braunr> back to userland ok, back to the application, no
+ <braunr> anyway, that's a side issue
+ <braunr> i'm fixing a few bugs in libpthread
+ <braunr> and noticed that
+ <braunr> (i should soon have patches to fix - at least partially - thread
+ cancellation and timed blocking)
+ <braunr> i was just wondering how cancellation how handled in glibc wrt
+ libpthread
+ <youpi> I don't know
+ <braunr> (because the non standard hurd cancellation has nothing to do with
+ pthread cancellation)à
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> s/how h/is h/
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-15
+
+ <tschwinge> braunr: Re »one call to printf to write twice its output«:
+ sounds familiar:
+ http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/git_duplicated_content.html
+ and http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/git-core-2.html
+ <braunr> tschwinge: what i find strange with the duplicated operations i've
+ seen is that i merely use pthreads and printf, nothing else
+ <braunr> no setitimer, no alarm, no select
+ <braunr> so i wonder how cancellation/syscall restart is actually handled
+ in our glibc
+ <braunr> but i agree with you on the analysis
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-16
+
+ <braunr> neal: do you (by any chance) remember if there could possibly be
+ spurious wakeups in your libpthread implementation ?
+ <neal> braunr: There probably are.
+ <neal> but I don't recall
+
+ <braunr> i think the duplicated content issue is due to the libmach/glibc
+ mach_msg wrapper
+ <braunr> which restarts a message send if interrupted
+ <tschwinge> Hrm, depending on which point it has been interrupted you mean?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> not sure yet and i could be wrong
+ <braunr> but i suspect that if interrupted after send and during receive,
+ the restart might be wrongfully done
+ <braunr> i'm currently reworking the timed* pthreads functions, doing the
+ same kind of changes i did last summer when working on select (since
+ implement the timeout at the server side requires pthread_cond_timedwait)
+ <braunr> and i limit the message queue size of the port used to wake up
+ threads to 1
+ <braunr> and it seems i have the same kind of problems, i.e. blocking
+ because of a second, unexpected send
+ <braunr> i'll try using __mach_msg_trap directly and see how it goes
+ <tschwinge> Hrm, mach/msg.c:__mach_msg does look correct to me, but yeah,
+ won't hurd to confirm this by looking what direct usage of
+ __mach_msg_trap is doing.
+ <braunr> tschwinge: can i ask if you still have a cthreads based hurd
+ around ?
+ <braunr> tschwinge: and if so, to send me libthreads.so.0.3 ... :)
+ <tschwinge> braunr: darnassus:~tschwinge/libthreads.so.0.3
+ <braunr> call 19c0 <mach_msg@plt>
+ <braunr> so, cthreads were also using the glibc wrapper
+ <braunr> and i never had a single MACH_SEND_INTERRUPTED
+ <braunr> or a busy queue :/
+ <braunr> (IOW, no duplicated messages, and the wrapper indeed looks
+ correct, so it's something else)
+ <tschwinge> (Assuming Mach is doing the correct thing re interruptions, of
+ course...)
+ <braunr> mach doesn't implement it
+ <braunr> it's explicitely meant to be done in userspace
+ <braunr> mach merely reports the error
+ <braunr> i checked the osfmach code of libmach, it's almost exactly the
+ same as ours
+ <tschwinge> Yeah, I meant Mach returns the interurption code but anyway
+ completed the RPC.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> i don't expect mach wouldn't do it right
+ <braunr> the only difference in osf libmach is that, when retrying,
+ MACH_SEND_INTERRUPT|MACH_RCV_INTERRUPT are both masked (for both the
+ send/send+receive and receive cases)
+ <tschwinge> Hrm.
+ <braunr> but they say it's for performance, i.e. mach won't take the slow
+ path because of unexpected bits in the options
+ <braunr> we probably should do the same anyway
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-17
+
+ <braunr> tschwinge: i think our duplicated RPCs come from
+ hurd/intr-msg.c:148 (err == MACH_SEND_INTERRUPTED but !(option &
+ MACH_SEND_MSG))
+ <braunr> a thread is interrupted by a signal meant for a different thread
+ <braunr> hum no, still not that ..
+ <braunr> or maybe .. :)
+ <tschwinge> Hrm. Why would it matter for for the current thread for which
+ reason (different thread) mach_msg_trap returns *_INTERRUPTED?
+ <braunr> mach_msg wouldn't return it, as explained in the comment
+ <braunr> the signal thread would, to indicate the send was completed but
+ the receive must be retried
+ <braunr> however, when retrying, the original user_options are used again,
+ which contain MACH_SEND_MSG
+ <braunr> i'll test with a modified version that masks it
+ <braunr> tschwinge: hm no, doesn't fix anything :(
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-18
+
+ <braunr> the duplicated rpc calls is one i find very very frustrating :/
+ <youpi> you mean the dup writes we've seen lately?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> k
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-19
+
+ <braunr> all right, i think the duplicated message sends are due to thread
+ creation
+ <braunr> the duplicated message seems to be sent by the newly created
+ thread
+ <braunr> arg no, misread
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-20
+
+ <braunr> tschwinge: youpi: about the diplucated messages issue, it seems to
+ be caused by two threads (with pthreads) doing an rpc concurrently
+ <braunr> duplicated*
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-21
+
+ <braunr> ah, found something interesting
+ <braunr> tschwinge: there seems to be a race on our file descriptors
+ <braunr> the content written by one thread seems to be retained somewhere
+ and another thread writing data to the file descriptor will resend what
+ the first already did
+ <braunr> it could be a FILE race instead of fd one though
+ <braunr> yes, it's not at the fd level, it's above
+ <braunr> so good news, seems like the low level message/signalling code
+ isn't faulty here
+ <braunr> all right, simple explanation: our IO_lockfile functions are
+ no-ops
+ <pinotree> braunr: i found that out days ago, and samuel said they were
+ okay
+
+[[glibc]], `flockfile`/`ftrylockfile`/`funlockfile`.
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-15
+
+ <braunr> hmm, looks like subhurds have been broken by the pthreads patch :/
+ <braunr> arg, we really do have broken subhurds :((
+ <braunr> time for an immersion in the early hurd bootstrapping stuff
+ <tschwinge> Hrm. Narrowed down to cthreads -> pthread you say.
+ <braunr> i think so
+ <braunr> but i think the problem is only exposed
+ <braunr> it was already present before
+ <braunr> even for the main hurd, i sometimes have systems blocking on exec
+ <braunr> there must be a race there that showed far less frequently with
+ cthreads
+ <braunr> youpi: we broke subhurds :/
+ <youpi> ?
+ <braunr> i can't start one
+ <braunr> exec seems to die and prevent the root file system from
+ progressing
+ <braunr> there must be a race, exposed by the switch to pthreads
+ <braunr> arg, looks like exec doesn't even reach main :(
+ <braunr> now, i'm wondering if it could be the tls support that stops exec
+ <braunr> although i wonder why exec would start correctly on a main hurd,
+ and not on a subhurd :(
+ <braunr> i even wonder how much progress ld.so.1 is able to make, and don't
+ have much idea on how to debug that
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-22
+
+ <braunr> hm, subhurds seem to be broken because of select
+ <braunr> damn select !
+ <braunr> hm i see, we can't boot a subhurd that still uses libthreads from
+ a main hurd that doesn't
+ <braunr> the linker can't find it and doesn't start exec
+ <braunr> pinotree: do you understand what the fmh function does in
+ sysdeps/mach/hurd/dl-sysdep.c ?
+ <braunr> i think we broke subhurds by fixing vm_map with size 0
+ <pinotree> braunr: no idea, but i remember thomas talking about this code
+
+[[vm_map_kernel_bug]]
+
+ <braunr> it checks for KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS and KERN_NO_SPACE
+ <braunr> and calls assert_perror(err); to make sure it's one of them
+ <braunr> but now, KERN_INVALID_ARGUMENT can be returned
+ <braunr> ok i understand what it does
+ <braunr> and youpi has changed the code, so he does too
+ <braunr> (now i'm wondering why he didn't think of it when we fixed vm_map
+ size with 0 but his head must already be filled with other things so ..)
+ <braunr> anyway, once this is dealt with, we get subhurds back :)
+ <braunr> yes, with a slight change, my subhurd starts again \o/
+ <braunr> youpi: i found the bug that prevents subhurds from booting
+ <braunr> it's caused by our fixing of vm_map with size 0
+ <braunr> when ld.so.1 starts exec, the code in
+ sysdeps/mach/hurd/dl-sysdep.c fails because it doesn't expect the new
+ error code we introduced
+ <braunr> (the fmh functions)
+ <youpi> ah :)
+ <youpi> good :)
+ <braunr> adding KERN_INVALID_ARGUMENT to the list should do the job, but if
+ i understand the code correctly, checking if fmhs isn't 0 before calling
+ vm_map should do the work too
+ <braunr> s/do the work/work/
+ <braunr> i'm not sure which is the preferred way
+ <youpi> otherwise I believe fmh could be just fixed to avoid calling vm_map
+ in the !fmhs case
+ <braunr> yes that's what i currently do
+ <braunr> at the start of the loop, just after computing it
+ <braunr> seems to work so far
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-22
+
+ <braunr> i have almost completed fixing both cancellation and timeout
+ handling, but there are still a few bugs remaining
+ <braunr> fyi, the related discussion was
+ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2012-08/msg00057.html
diff --git a/open_issues/mach_tasks_memory_usage.mdwn b/open_issues/mach_tasks_memory_usage.mdwn
index 9abb763..7a7a77c 100644
--- a/open_issues/mach_tasks_memory_usage.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/mach_tasks_memory_usage.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -8,9 +8,10 @@ Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
-[[!tag open_issue_documentation]]
+[[!tag open_issue_documentation open_issue_gnumach]]
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-01-06
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-01-06
<antrik> hm, odd... vmstat tells me that ~500 MiB of RAM are in use; but
the sum of all RSS is <300 MiB... what's the rest?
@@ -100,7 +101,7 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-01-06
libraries
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-24
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-24
< braunr> the panic is probably due to memory shortage
< braunr> so as antrik suggested, use more swap
@@ -145,3 +146,30 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-24
looks like it is on both seqnos_memory_object_data_initialize and
seqnos_memory_object_data_write
< braunr> antrik: so i guess reserved memory is accounted for
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-12
+
+ <tschwinge> darnassus linking clang: 600 MiB swap in use and 22 MiB RAM
+ free, of 2 GiB. But ps shows a RSS of just 100 MiB, huh?
+ <tschwinge> Getting "better": near the end of the link, nearly 1 GiB swap
+ in use, and 200 KiB (!) RAM free.
+ <sobhan> can hurd have more than 1GB of ram ?
+ <tschwinge> And then it completed; 75 MiB swap in use, and 1.2 GiB RAM
+ free.
+ <braunr> tschwinge: unless i'm mistaken, mach uses the legacy "swapping"
+ bsd mechanism
+ <braunr> tschwinge: i.e. when it swaps a process, it swaps all of it
+ <braunr> tschwinge: the rest is probably one big anonymous vm object
+ containing the process space
+ <braunr> cached objects aren't currently well accounted
+ <braunr> (well, since youpi got my page cache patches in, they are, but
+ procfs isn't yet modified to report them)
+ <braunr> tschwinge: right, i'm currently looking at the machine and it
+ doesn't add up, i suppoe there are some big files still in the cache
+ <braunr> ah, git packed objects :p
+ <braunr> and a few llvm .a/.so/executable files too
+ <braunr> and since they're probably targets, they're built last, which
+ explains why they're retained in the cache for a while
+
+[[microkernel/mach/message/msgh_id]] (why on *that* page?).
diff --git a/open_issues/mission_statement.mdwn b/open_issues/mission_statement.mdwn
index b32d6ba..a1c8f23 100644
--- a/open_issues/mission_statement.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/mission_statement.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -697,3 +698,11 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<braunr> nowhere_man: it can be used that way too
<braunr> functional programming is getting more and more attention
<braunr> so it's fine if you're a lisp fan really
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-04
+
+ <civodul> BTW, it's weird that the mission statement linked from
+ hurd.gnu.org is in weblog/ and written in the first person
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> very :)
diff --git a/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn b/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn
index f631a80..d780486 100644
--- a/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/multithreading.mdwn
@@ -266,6 +266,94 @@ Tom Van Cutsem, 2009.
async by nature, will create messages floods anyway
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-23
+
+ <braunr> hmm let's try something
+ <braunr> iirc, we cannot limit the max number of threads in libports
+ <braunr> but did someone try limiting the number of threads used by
+ libpager ?
+ <braunr> (the only source of system stability problems i currently have are
+ the unthrottled writeback requests)
+ <youpi> braunr: perhaps we can limit the amount of requests batched by the
+ ext2fs sync?
+ <braunr> youpi: that's another approach, yes
+ <youpi> (I'm not sure to understand what threads libpager create)
+ <braunr> youpi: one for each writeback request
+ <youpi> ew
+ <braunr> but it makes its own call to
+ ports_manage_port_operations_multithread
+ <braunr> i'll write a new ports_manage_port_operations_multithread_n
+ function that takes a mx threads parameter
+ <braunr> and see if it helps
+ <braunr> i thought replacing spin locks with mutexes would help, but it's
+ not enough, the true problem is simply far too much contention
+ <braunr> youpi: i still think we should increase the page dirty timeout to
+ 30 seconds
+ <youpi> wouldn't that actually increase the amount of request done in one
+ go?
+ <braunr> it would
+ <braunr> but other systems (including linux) do that
+ <youpi> but they group requests
+ <braunr> what linux does is scan pages every 5 seconds, and writeback those
+ who have been dirty for more than 30 secs
+ <braunr> hum yes but that's just a performance issue
+ <braunr> i mean, a separate one
+ <braunr> a great source of fs performance degradation is due to this
+ regular scan happenning at the same time regular I/O calls are made
+ <braunr> e.G. aptitude update
+ <braunr> so, as a first step, until the sync scan is truley optimized, we
+ could increase that interval
+ <youpi> I'm afraid of the resulting stability regression
+ <youpi> having 6 times as much writebacks to do
+ <braunr> i see
+ <braunr> my current patch seems to work fine for now
+ <braunr> i'll stress it some more
+ <braunr> (it limits the number of paging threads to 10 currently)
+ <braunr> but iirc, you fixed a deadlock with a debian patch there
+ <braunr> i think the case was a pager thread sending a request to the
+ kernel, and waiting for the kernel to call another RPC that would unblock
+ the pager thread
+ <braunr> ah yes it was merged upstream
+ <braunr> which means a thread calling memory_object_lock_request with sync
+ == 1 must wait for a memory_object_lock_completed
+ <braunr> so it can deadlock, whatever the number of threads
+ <braunr> i'll try creating two separate pools with a limited number of
+ threads then
+ <braunr> we probably have the same deadlock issue in
+ pager_change_attributes btw
+ <braunr> hm no, i can still bring a hurd down easily with a large i/o
+ request :(
+ <braunr> and now it just recovered after 20 seconds without any visible cpu
+ or i/o usage ..
+ <braunr> i'm giving up on this libpager issue
+ <braunr> it simply requires a redesign
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-28
+
+ <smindinvern> so what causes the stability issues? or is that not really
+ known yet?
+ <braunr> the basic idea is that the kernel handles the page cache
+ <braunr> and writebacks aren't correctly throttled
+ <braunr> so a huge number of threads (several hundreds, sometimes
+ thousands) are created
+ <braunr> when this pathological state is reached, it's very hard to recover
+ because of the various sources of (low) I/O in the system
+ <braunr> a simple line sent to syslog increases the load average
+ <braunr> the solution requires reworking the libpager library, and probably
+ the libdiskfs one too, perhaps others, certainly also the pagers
+ <braunr> maybe the kernel too, i'm not sure
+ <braunr> i'd say so because it manages a big part of the paging policy
+
+
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-02
+
+ <braunr> i think i have a simple-enough solution for the writeback
+ instability
+
+[[hurd/libpager]].
+
+
## Alternative approaches:
* <http://www.concurrencykit.org/>
@@ -273,7 +361,7 @@ Tom Van Cutsem, 2009.
* Continuation-passing style
* [[microkernel/Mach]] internally [[uses
- continuations|microkernel/mach/continuation]], too.
+ continuations|microkernel/mach/gnumach/continuation]], too.
* [[Erlang-style_parallelism]]
diff --git a/open_issues/nice_vs_mach_thread_priorities.mdwn b/open_issues/nice_vs_mach_thread_priorities.mdwn
index 76788a5..e27d301 100644
--- a/open_issues/nice_vs_mach_thread_priorities.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/nice_vs_mach_thread_priorities.mdwn
@@ -373,3 +373,17 @@ here.
<pochu> braunr: can't remember right now, either that or to fix a ftbfs in
debian
<youpi> iirc it's coreutils which wants proper nice levels
+
+
+# IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2013-03-04
+
+ <Steap> Is it not possible to set the priority of a process to 1 ?
+ <Steap> these macros:
+ <Steap> #define MACH_PRIORITY_TO_NICE(prio) (2 * ((prio) - 12))
+ <Steap> #define NICE_TO_MACH_PRIORITY(nice) (12 + ((nice) / 2))
+ <Steap> are used in the setpriority() implementation of Hurd
+ <Steap> so setting a process' priority to 1 is just like setting it to 0
+ <youpi> Steap: that has already been discussed to drop the *2
+ <youpi> the issue is mach not supporting enough sched levels
+ <youpi> can be fixed, of course
+ <youpi> just nobody did yet
diff --git a/open_issues/ogi.mdwn b/open_issues/ogi.mdwn
index e4372dc..c58d2ee 100644
--- a/open_issues/ogi.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/ogi.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -23,3 +23,32 @@ interesting.
checking copyright situation, also for thesis / w.r.t. university
project
+
+ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-15:
+
+ <tschwinge> ogi: The question was rather (IIRC) whether your
+ university has the copyright of this project, given it was done
+ on their time.
+ <ogi> tschwinge: no problems with my university
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-15
+
+ <ogi> braunr: i want to update my ext3fs server to ext4 actually
+ <braunr> you have an ext3 server ?
+ <ogi> braunr: this was my M.Sc. thesis and the 2G patch was a side effect
+ <ogi> braunr: but it easily crashes under stress, so not usable
+ <braunr> it does ?
+ <ogi> braunr: it's not available for download ATM
+ <braunr> are you sure it's not a thread storm issue caused by the
+ unthrottled mach writebacks ?
+ <ogi> braunr: i don't know, haven't looked at it since 2004
+ <braunr> oh :)
+ <braunr> ok
+ <ogi> i have all ext3fs stuff archived, just haven't put it on
+ http://fire.tower.3.bg/ yet
+ <tschwinge> ogi: If the copyright situation is clear, we can put it into
+ upstream Git repositories, no matter how dirty it is.
+ <tschwinge> "dirty" in the sense of that it needs cleanup, has bugs, etc.
+ <ogi> so at some point i want to audit libdiskfs and then continue with
+ ext4fs: https://savannah.gnu.org/patch/?1839
diff --git a/open_issues/packaging_libpthread.mdwn b/open_issues/packaging_libpthread.mdwn
index 18f124b..171dc7a 100644
--- a/open_issues/packaging_libpthread.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/packaging_libpthread.mdwn
@@ -155,6 +155,30 @@ cherry-picked.
upstream
+## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2013-02-08
+
+ <tschwinge> I also have it on my (never-ending) agenda to add libpthread to
+ the tschwinge/Roger_Whittaker branch and/or propose it be added upstream
+ (as a Git submodule?).
+ <pinotree> imho a git submodule could be a solution, if glibc people would
+ accept it
+ <pinotree> if so, libpthread.git would need proper glibc/x.y branches to
+ follow glibc
+ <tschwinge> Yep.
+ <tschwinge> I though that would be the least invasive approach for glibc
+ upstream -- and quite convenient for us, too.
+ <pinotree> after all, git submodules don't track branches, but point to
+ specific commits, no?
+ <tschwinge> Correct.
+ <tschwinge> So we can do locally/in Debian whatever we want, and every once
+ in a while update the upstream glibc commit ID for libpthread.
+ <pinotree> so we could update the git submodule references in glibc when
+ we've tested enough libpthread changes
+ <tschwinge> Just like when committing patches upstream, just without
+ pestering them with all the patches/commits.
+ <tschwinge> Yep.
+
+
# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-11-16
<pinotree> *** $(common-objpfx)resolv/gai_suspend.o: uses
diff --git a/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn b/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn
index 706e163..be582e8 100644
--- a/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/performance/io_system/read-ahead.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -2556,3 +2557,429 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<braunr> you're asking if you can include the large store patch in your
work, and by extension, in the main branch
<braunr> i would say yes, but this must be discussed with others
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-18
+
+ <braunr> mcsim: so, currently reviewing gnumach
+ <mcsim> braunr: hello
+ <braunr> mcsim: the review branch, right ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: yes
+ <mcsim> braunr: What do you start with?
+ <braunr> memory refreshing
+ <braunr> i see you added the advice twice, to vm_object and vm_map_entry
+ <braunr> iirc, we agreed to only add it to map entries
+ <braunr> am i wrong ?
+ <mcsim> let me see
+ <braunr> the real question being: what do you use the object advice for ?
+ <mcsim> >iirc, we agreed to only add it to map entries
+ <mcsim> braunr: TBH, do not remember that. At some point we came to
+ conclusion that there should be only one advice. But I'm not sure if it
+ was final point.
+ <braunr> maybe it wasn't, yes
+ <braunr> that's why i've just reformulated the question
+ <mcsim> if (map_entry && (map_entry->advice != VM_ADVICE_DEFAULT))
+ <mcsim> advice = map_entry->advice;
+ <mcsim> else
+ <mcsim> advice = object->advice;
+ <braunr> ok
+ <mcsim> It just participates in determining actual advice
+ <braunr> ok that's not a bad thing
+ <braunr> let's keep it
+ <braunr> please document VM_ADVICE_KEEP
+ <braunr> and rephrase "How to handle page faults" in vm_object.h to
+ something like 'How to tune page fault handling"
+ <braunr> mcsim: what's the point of VM_ADVICE_KEEP btw ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: Probably it is better to remove it?
+ <braunr> well if it doesn't do anything, probably
+ <mcsim> braunr: advising was part of mo_set_attributes before
+ <mcsim> no it is redudant
+ <braunr> i see
+ <braunr> so yes, remove it
+ <mcsim> s/no/now
+ <braunr> (don't waste time on a gcs-like changelog format for now)
+ <braunr> i also suggest creating _vX branches
+ <braunr> so we can compare the changes between each of your review branches
+ <braunr> hm, minor coding style issues like switch(...) instead of switch
+ (...)
+ <braunr> why does syscall_vm_advise return MACH_SEND_INTERRUPTED if the
+ target map is NULL ?
+ <braunr> is it modelled after an existing behaviour ?
+ <braunr> ah, it's the syscall version
+ <mcsim> braunr: every syscall does so
+ <braunr> and the error is supposed to be used by user stubs to switch to
+ the rpc version
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> hm
+ <braunr> you've replaced obsolete port_set_select and port_set_backup calls
+ with your own
+ <braunr> don't do that
+ <braunr> instead, add your calls to the new gnumach interface
+ <braunr> mcsim: out of curiosity, have you actually tried the syscall
+ version ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: Isn't it called by default?
+ <braunr> i don't think so, no
+ <mcsim> than no
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> you could name vm_get_advice_info vm_advice_info
+ <mcsim> regarding obsolete calls, did you say that only in regard of
+ port_set_* or all other calls too?
+ <braunr> all of the
+ <braunr> m
+ <braunr> i missed one, yes
+ <braunr> the idea is: don't change the existing interface
+ <mcsim> >you could name vm_get_advice_info vm_advice_info
+ <mcsim> could or should? i.e. rename?
+ <braunr> i'd say should, to remain consistent with the existing similar
+ calls
+ <mcsim> ok
+ <braunr> can you explain KERN_NO_DATA a bit more ?
+ <braunr> i suppose it's what servers should answer for neighbour pages that
+ don't exist in the backend, right ?
+ <mcsim> kernel can ask server for some data to read them beforehand, but
+ server can be in situation when it does not know what data should be
+ prefetched
+ <mcsim> yes
+ <braunr> ok
+ <mcsim> it is used by ext2 server
+ <mcsim> with large store patch
+ <braunr> so its purpose is to allow the kernel to free the preallocated
+ pages that won't be used
+ <braunr> do i get it right ?
+ <mcsim> no.
+ <mcsim> ext2 server has a buffer for pages and when kernel asks to read
+ pages ahead it specifies region of that buffer
+ <braunr> ah ok
+ <mcsim> but consecutive pages in buffer does not correspond to consecutive
+ pages on disk
+ <braunr> so, the kernel can only prefetch pages that were already read by
+ the server ?
+ <mcsim> no, it can ask a server to prefetch pages that were not read by
+ server
+ <braunr> hum
+ <braunr> ok
+ <mcsim> but in case with buffer, if buffer page is empty, server does not
+ know what to prefetch
+ <braunr> i'm not sure i'm following
+ <braunr> well, i'm sure i'm not following
+ <braunr> what happens when the kernel requests data from a server, right
+ after a page fault ?
+ <braunr> what does the message afk for ?
+ <mcsim> kernel is unaware regarding actual size of file where was page
+ fault because of buffer indirection, right?
+ <braunr> i don't know what "buffer" refers to here
+ <mcsim> this is buffer in memory where ext2 server reads pages
+ <mcsim> with large store patch ext2 server does not map the whole disk, but
+ some of its pages
+ <mcsim> and it maps these pages in special buffer
+ <mcsim> that means that constructiveness of pages in memory does not mean
+ that they are consecutive on disk or logically (belong to the same file)
+ <braunr> ok so it's a page pool
+ <braunr> with unordered pages
+ <braunr> but what do you mean when you say "server does not know what to
+ prefetch"
+ <braunr> it normally has everything to determine that
+ <mcsim> For instance, page fault occurs that leads to reading of
+ 4k-file. But kernel does not know actual size of file and asks to
+ prefetch 16K bytes
+ <braunr> yes
+ <mcsim> There is no sense to prefetch something that does not belong to
+ this file
+ <braunr> yes but the server *knows* that
+ <mcsim> and server answers with KERN_NO_DATA
+ <mcsim> server should always say something about every page that was asked
+ <braunr> then, again, isn't the purpose of KERN_NO_DATA to notify the
+ kernel it can release the preallocated pages meant for the non existing
+ data ?
+ <braunr> (non existing or more generally non prefetchable)
+ <mcsim> yes
+ <braunr> then
+ <braunr> why did you answer no to
+ <braunr> 15:46 < braunr> so its purpose is to allow the kernel to free the
+ preallocated pages that won't be used
+ <braunr> is there something missing ?
+ <braunr> (well obviously, notify the kernel it can go on with page fault
+ handling)
+ <mcsim> braunr: sorry, misunderstoo/misread
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> so good, i got this right :)
+ <braunr> i wonder if KERN_NO_DATA may be a bit too vague
+ <braunr> people might confuse it with ENODATA
+ <mcsim> Actually, this is transformation of ENODATA
+ <mcsim> I was looking among POSIX error codes and thought that this is the
+ most appropriate
+ <braunr> i'm not sure it is
+ <braunr> first, it's about STREAMS, a commonly unused feature
+ <braunr> and second, the code is obsolete
+ <mcsim> braunr: AFAIR purpose of KERN_NO_DATA is not only free
+ pages. Without this call something should hang
+ <braunr> 15:59 < braunr> (well obviously, notify the kernel it can go on
+ with page fault handling)
+ <mcsim> yes
+ <braunr> hm
+ <mcsim> sorry again
+ <braunr> i don't see anything better for the error name for now
+ <braunr> and it's really minor so let's keep it as it is
+ <braunr> actually, ENODATA being obsolete helps here
+ <braunr> ok, done for now, work calling
+ <braunr> we'll continue later or tomorrow
+ <mcsim> braunr: ok
+ <braunr> other than that, this looks ok on the kernel side for now
+ <braunr> the next change is a bit larger so i'd like to take the time to
+ read it
+ <mcsim> braunr: ok
+ <mcsim> regarding moving calls in mach.defs, can I put them elsewhere?
+ <braunr> gnumach.defs
+ <braunr> you'll probably need to rebase your changes to get it
+ <mcsim> braunr: I'll rebase this later, when we finish with review
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> keep the comments in a list then, not to forget
+ <braunr> (logging irc is also useful)
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-20
+
+ <braunr> mcsim: why does VM_ADVICE_DEFAULT have its own entry ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: this kind of fallback mode
+ <mcsim> i suppose that even random strategy could even read several pages
+ at once
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> but then, why did you name it "default" ?
+ <mcsim> because it is assigned by default
+ <braunr> ah
+ <braunr> so you expect pagers to set something else
+ <braunr> for all objects they create
+ <mcsim> yes
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> why not, but add a comment please
+ <mcsim> at least until all pagers will support clustered reading
+ <mcsim> ok
+ <braunr> even after that, it's ok
+ <braunr> just say it's there to keep the previous behaviour by default
+ <braunr> so people don't get the idea of changing it too easily
+ <mcsim> comment in vm_advice.h?
+ <braunr> no, in vm_fault.C
+ <braunr> right above the array
+ <braunr> why does vm_calculate_clusters return two ranges ?
+ <braunr> also, "Function PAGE_IS_NOT_ELIGIBLE is used to determine if",
+ PAGE_IS_NOT_ELIGIBLE doesn't look like a function
+ <mcsim> I thought make it possible not only prefetch range, but also free
+ some memory that is not used already
+ <mcsim> braunr: ^
+ <mcsim> but didn't implement it :/
+ <braunr> don't overengineer it
+ <braunr> reduce to what's needed
+ <mcsim> braunr: ok
+ <mcsim> braunr: do you think it's worth to implement?
+ <braunr> no
+ <mcsim> braunr: it could be useful for sequential policy
+ <braunr> describe what you have in mind a bit more please, i think i don't
+ have the complete picture
+ <mcsim> with sequential policy user supposed to read strictly in sequential
+ order, so pages that user is not supposed to read could be put in unused
+ list
+ <braunr> what pages the user isn't supposed to read ?
+ <mcsim> if user read pages in increasing order than it is not supposed to
+ read pages that are right before the page where page fault occured
+ <braunr> right ?
+ <braunr> do you mean higher ?
+ <mcsim> that are before
+ <braunr> before would be lower then
+ <braunr> oh
+ <braunr> "right before"
+ <mcsim> yes :)
+ <braunr> why not ?
+ <braunr> the initial assumption, that MADV_SEQUENTIAL expects *strict*
+ sequential access, looks wrong
+ <braunr> remember it's just a hint
+ <braunr> a user could just acces pages that are closer to one another and
+ still use MADV_SEQUENTIAL, expecting a speedup because pages are close
+ <braunr> well ok, this wouldn't be wise
+ <braunr> MADV_SEQUENTIAL should be optimized for true sequential access,
+ agreed
+ <braunr> but i'm not sure i'm following you
+ <mcsim> but I'm not going to page these pages out. Just put in unused
+ list, and if they will be used later they will be move to active list
+ <braunr> your optimization seem to be about freeing pages that were
+ prefetched and not actually accessed
+ <braunr> what's the unused list ?
+ <mcsim> inactive list
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> so that they're freed sooner
+ <mcsim> yes
+ <braunr> well, i guess all neighbour pages should first be put in the
+ inactive list
+ <braunr> iirc, pages in the inactive list aren't mapped
+ <braunr> this would force another page fault, with a quick resolution, to
+ tell the vm system the page was actually used, and must become active,
+ and paged out later than other inactive pages
+ <braunr> but i really think it's not worth doing it now
+ <braunr> clustered pagins is about improving I/O
+ <braunr> page faults without I/O are orders of magnitude faster than I/O
+ <braunr> it wouldn't bring much right now
+ <mcsim> ok, I remove this, but put in TODO
+ <mcsim> I'm not sure that right list is inactive list, but the list that is
+ scanned to pageout pages to swap partition. There should be such list
+ <braunr> both the active and inactive are
+ <braunr> the active one is scanned when the inactive isn't large enough
+ <braunr> (the current ratio of active pages is limited to 1/3)
+ <braunr> (btw, we could try increasing it to 1/2)
+ <braunr> iirc, linux uses 1/2
+ <braunr> your comment about unlock_request isn't obvious, i'll have to
+ reread again
+ <braunr> i mean, the problem isn't obvious
+ <braunr> ew, functions with so many indentation levels :/
+ <braunr> i forgot how ugly some parts of the mach vm were
+ <braunr> mcsim: basically it's ok, i'll wait for the simplified version for
+ another pass
+ <mcsim> simplified?
+ <braunr> 22:11 < braunr> reduce to what's needed
+ <mcsim> ok
+ <mcsim> and what comment?
+ <braunr> your XXX in vm_fault.c
+ <braunr> when calling vm_calculate_clusters
+ <mcsim> is m->unlock_request the same for all cluster or I should
+ recalculate it for every page?
+ <mcsim> s/all/whole
+ <braunr> that's what i say, i'll have to come back to that later
+ <braunr> after i have reviewed the userspace code i think
+ <braunr> so i understand the interactions better
+ <mcsim> braunr: pushed v1 branch
+ <mcsim> braunr: "Move new calls to gnumach.defs file" and "Implement
+ putting pages in inactive list with sequential policy" are in my TODO
+ <braunr> mcsim: ok
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-24
+
+ <braunr> mcsim: where does the commit from neal (reworking libpager) come
+ from ?
+ <braunr> (ok the question looks a little weird semantically but i think you
+ get my point)
+ <mcsim> braunr: you want me to give you a link to mail with this commit?
+ <braunr> why not, yes
+ <mcsim> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.hurd.bugs/446
+ <braunr> ok so
+ http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2012-06/msg00001.html
+ <braunr> ok so, we actually have three things to review here
+ <braunr> that libpager patch, the ext2fs large store one, and your work
+ <braunr> mcsim: i suppose something in your work depends on neal's patch,
+ right ?
+ <braunr> i mean, why did you work on top of it ?
+ <mcsim> Yes
+ <mcsim> All user level code
+ <braunr> i see it adds some notifications
+ <mcsim> no
+ <mcsim> notifacations are for large store
+ <braunr> ok
+ <mcsim> but the rest is for my work
+ <braunr> but what does it do that you require ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: this patch adds support for multipage work. There were just
+ stubs that returned errors for chunks longer than one page before.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> for now, i'll just consider that it's ok, as well as the large
+ store patch
+ <braunr> ok i've skipped all patches up to "Make mach-defpager process
+ multipage requests in m_o_data_request." since they're obvious
+ <braunr> but this one isn't
+ <braunr> mcsim: why is the offset member a vm_size_t in struct block ?
+ <braunr> (these things matter for large file support on 32-bit systems)
+ <mcsim> braunr: It should be vm_offset_t, right?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> well
+ <braunr> it seems so but
+ <braunr> im not sure what offset is here
+ <braunr> vm_offset is normally the offset inside a vm_object
+ <braunr> and if we want large file support, it could become a 64-bit
+ integer
+ <braunr> while vm_size_t is a size inside an address space, so it's either
+ 32 or 64-bit, depending on the address space size
+ <braunr> but here, if offset is an offset inside an address space,
+ vm_size_t is fine
+ <braunr> same question for send_range_parameters
+ <mcsim> braunr: TBH, I do not differ vm_size_t and vm_offset_t well
+ <braunr> they can be easily confused yes
+ <braunr> they're both offsets and sizes actually
+ <braunr> they're integers
+ <mcsim> so here I used vm_offset_t because field name is offset
+ <braunr> but vm_size_t is an offset/size inside an address space (a
+ vm_map), while vm_offset_t is an offset/size inside an object
+ <mcsim> braunr: I didn't know that
+ <braunr> it's not clear at all
+ <braunr> and it may not have been that clear in mach either
+ <braunr> but i think it's best to consider them this way from now on
+ <braunr> well, it's not that important anyway since we don't have large
+ file support, but we should some day :/
+ <braunr> i'm afraid we'll have it as a side effect of the 64-bit port
+ <braunr> mcsim: just name them vm_offset_t when they're offsets for
+ consistency
+ <mcsim> but seems that I guessed, because I use vm_offset_t variables in
+ mo_ functions
+ <braunr> well ok, but my question was about struct block
+ <braunr> where you use vm_size_t
+ <mcsim> braunr: I consider this like a mistake
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> moving on
+ <braunr> in upload_range, there are two XXX comments
+ <braunr> i'm not sure to understand
+ <mcsim> Second XXX I put because at the moment when I wrote this not all
+ hurd libraries and servers supported size different from vm_page_size
+ <mcsim> But then I fixed this and replaced vm_page_size with size in
+ page_read_file_direct
+ <braunr> ok then update the comment accordingly
+ <mcsim> When I was adding third XXX, I tried to check everything. But I
+ still had felling that I forgot something.
+ <mcsim> No it is better to remove second and third XXX, since I didn't find
+ what I missed
+ <braunr> well, that's what i mean by "update" :)
+ <mcsim> ok
+ <mcsim> and first XXX just an optimisation. Its idea is that there is no
+ case when the whole structure is used in one function.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <mcsim> But I was not sure if was worth to do, because if there will appear
+ some bug in future it could be hard to find it.
+ <mcsim> I mean that maintainability decreases because of using union
+ <mcsim> So, I'd rather keep it like it is
+ <braunr> how is struct send_range_parameters used ?
+ <braunr> it doesn't looked to be something stored long
+ <braunr> also, you're allowed to use GNU extensions
+ <mcsim> It is used to pass parameters from one function to another
+ <mcsim> which of them?
+ <braunr> see
+ http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.4.7/gcc/Unnamed-Fields.html#Unnamed-Fields
+ <braunr> mcsim: if it's used to pass parameters, it's likely always on the
+ stack
+ <mcsim> braunr: I use it when necessary
+ <braunr> we really don't care much about a few extra words on the stack
+ <braunr> the difference in size would
+ <mcsim> agree
+ <braunr> matter
+ <braunr> oops
+ <braunr> the difference in size would matter if a lot of those were stored
+ in memory for long durations
+ <braunr> that's not the case, so the size isn't a problem, and you should
+ remove the comment
+ <mcsim> ok
+ <braunr> mcsim: if i get it right, the libpager rework patch changes some
+ parameters from byte offset to page frame numbers
+ <mcsim> braunr: yes
+ <braunr> why don't you check errors in send_range ?
+ <mcsim> braunr: it was absent in original code, but you're right, I should
+ do this
+ <braunr> i'm not sure how to handle any error there, but at least an assert
+ <mcsim> I found a place where pager just panics
+ <braunr> for now it's ok
+ <braunr> your work isn't about avoiding panics, but there must be a check,
+ so if we can debug it and reach that point, we'll know what went wrong
+ <braunr> i don't understand the prototype change of default_read :/
+ <braunr> it looks like it doesn't return anything any more
+ <braunr> has it become asynchronous ?
+ <mcsim> It was returning some status before, but now it handles this status
+ on its own
+ <braunr> hum
+ <braunr> how ?
+ <braunr> how do you deal with errors ?
+ <mcsim> in old code default_read returned kr and this kr was used to
+ determine what m_o_ function will be used
+ <mcsim> now default_read calls m_o_ on its own
+ <braunr> ok
diff --git a/open_issues/pfinet_timers.mdwn b/open_issues/pfinet_timers.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..387ad4f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/open_issues/pfinet_timers.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-11
+
+ <braunr> now that there is a pthread_hurd_cond_timedwait_np function
+ available, we could replace the ulgy timers in pfinet
diff --git a/open_issues/pflocal_socket_credentials_for_local_sockets.mdwn b/open_issues/pflocal_socket_credentials_for_local_sockets.mdwn
index dfdc213..d252eb5 100644
--- a/open_issues/pflocal_socket_credentials_for_local_sockets.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/pflocal_socket_credentials_for_local_sockets.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -8,10 +8,11 @@ Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
-IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-28
-
[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-28
+
<pinotree> basically, i'm trying to implement socket credentials for local
sockets, and i guessed doing it in pflocal would be the appropriate place
<pinotree> what i thought was filling the cmsg data for MSG_CRED at
@@ -41,6 +42,25 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-03-28
<youpi> yes
<pinotree> nice thanks, i will try that change first
+
+# IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2013-02-20
+
+ <pinotree> youpi: while debugging #700530, it seems that xorg does not have
+ working socket credentials on kfreebsd (and hurd too)
+ <pinotree> julien provided sune with
+ http://people.debian.org/~jcristau/kbsd-peercred.diff to test, but of
+ course that won't work for us (even if we would have working socket
+ credentials with cmsg)
+ <pinotree> (that patch is not tested yet)
+ <pinotree> at least, we're aware there's another place in need for working
+ socket credentials now
+ <youpi> k
+ <pinotree> youpi: (the patch above has been confirmed to work, with
+ s/SOL_SOCKET/0/ )
+ <youpi> 0 ?!
+ <pinotree> yeah
+
+
---
See also [[pflocal_reauth]] and [[sendmsg_scm_creds]].
diff --git a/open_issues/ps_SIGSEGV.mdwn b/open_issues/ps_SIGSEGV.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..24d5cb4
--- /dev/null
+++ b/open_issues/ps_SIGSEGV.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-05
+
+ <braunr> ps -l segfaults
+ <braunr> ah, perhaps because of the subhurd
diff --git a/open_issues/rpc_stub_generator.mdwn b/open_issues/rpc_stub_generator.mdwn
index 05eb53b..d4622d6 100644
--- a/open_issues/rpc_stub_generator.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/rpc_stub_generator.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -97,3 +97,50 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
scatter-gather to be used with x15
<braunr> once more, i fell back on omg idl
<braunr> oh, there is also flick that looks interesting
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-13-16
+
+ <tschwinge> braunr: By the way, regarding your recent IDL considerations
+ (and I too suggest using some kind of RPC generator basone on whichever
+ IDL) -- are you aware that for Viengoos, Neal has written a RPC stub
+ generator entirely in C Preprocessor macros? No idea whather that's
+ suitable for your case, but may be worth having a look at.
+ <neal> it probably isn't easy to port to Mach
+ <neal> genode has an ipc generator as well
+ <neal> which is written in a real langugage
+ <neal> that might be worth checking out as well
+ <neal> (note: I haven't followed the conversation at all.)
+ <braunr> i was considering using macros only too actually
+ <braunr> (i thought genode had switched to complex c++ templates)
+ <neal> dunno
+ <neal> I'm not up to date
+ <neal> macros are nice, but marshalling complicated data structures is hard
+ <sekon_> why implement it with just macros ??
+ <neal> no lexer, no parser
+ <neal> no special special tools
+ <neal> the first are a burden
+ <neal> the latter is a pain
+ <neal>
+ http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=hurd/viengoos.git;a=blob;f=libviengoos/viengoos/rpc.h;h=721768358a0299637fb79f226aea6a304571da85;hb=refs/heads/viengoos-on-bare-metal
+ <neal> in the same directory, you there are headers that use it
+ <braunr> neal: cf. http://genode.org/documentation/release-notes/11.05
+ <braunr> tschwinge: why do you recommend an IDL ?
+ <neal> braunr: What about it?
+ <braunr> neal: it shows the difference between the earlier ipc/rpc
+ interface, and the new one based only on templates and dynamic
+ marshalling using c++ streams
+ <neal> ok
+ <tschwinge> braunr: In my book, the definition of RPC interfaces is just
+ "data" in the sense that it describes data structures (exchanged
+ messages) and as such should be expressed as data (by means of an IDL),
+ instead of directly codifying it in a specific programming language.
+ <tschwinge> Of course, there may be other reasons for doing the latter
+ anyway, such as performance/optimization reasons.
+ <braunr> tschwinge: well, from my pov, you're justifying the use of an idl
+ from the definition of an rpc
+ <braunr> i'm not sure it makes much sense for me
+ <braunr> in addition, the idl becomes the "specific programming language"
+ <tschwinge> Well, I see it as data that has to be translated into several
+ formats: different programming languages' stub code.
+ <braunr> you could consider c the "common" language :)
diff --git a/open_issues/select.mdwn b/open_issues/select.mdwn
index 391509a..caecc43 100644
--- a/open_issues/select.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/select.mdwn
@@ -215,7 +215,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<youpi> it's better than nothing yes
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-21
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-21
<braunr> damn, select is actually completely misdesigned :/
<braunr> iiuc, it makes servers *block*, in turn :/
@@ -315,7 +315,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
really easy and nice :-)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-22
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-22
<braunr> antrik: you can't block in servers with sync ipc
<braunr> so in this case, "select" becomes a request for notifications
@@ -379,7 +379,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
his reasoning (as does braunr)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-23
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-23
<braunr> antrik: i was meaning sync in the most common meaning, yes, the
client blocking on the reply
@@ -650,6 +650,9 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> which is why i could choose time_value_t (a struct of 2 integer_t)
<youpi> well, I'd say gnumach could grow a nanosecond-precision time value
<youpi> e.g. for clock_gettime precision and such
+
+[[clock_gettime]].
+
<braunr> so you would prefer me adding the time_spec_t time to gnumach
rather than the hurd ?
<youpi> well, if hurd RPCs are using mach types and there's no mach type
@@ -782,7 +785,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
API definition at RPC level too
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-24
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-24
<braunr> youpi: antrik: is vm_size_t an appropriate type for a c long ?
<braunr> (appropriate mig type)
@@ -809,7 +812,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
continue
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-25
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-25
<antrik_> braunr: well, for actual kernel calls, machine-specific types are
probably hard to avoid... the problem is when they are used in other RPCs
@@ -900,7 +903,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> antrik: ah about that, ok
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-26
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-26
<pinotree> braunr: wrt your select_timeout branch, why not push only the
time_data stuff to master?
@@ -914,7 +917,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> i "only" have to adjust the client side select implementation now
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-27
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-27
<braunr> io_select should remain a routine (i.e. synchronous) for server
side stub code
@@ -922,7 +925,14 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> (since _hurs_select manually handles replies through a port set)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-28
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-09
+
+ <braunr> io_select becomes a simpleroutine, except inside the hurd, where
+ it's a routine to keep the receive and reply mig stub code
+ <braunr> (the server side)
+
+
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-28
<braunr> why are there both REPLY_PORTS and IO_SELECT_REPLY_PORT macros in
the hurd ..
@@ -941,7 +951,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> i did something a bit ugly but it seems to do what i wanted
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-29
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-29
<braunr> good, i have a working client-side select
<braunr> now i need to fix the servers a bit :x
@@ -998,7 +1008,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
queue ...
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-30
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-07-30
<braunr> hm nice, the problem i have with my hurd_condition_timedwait seems
to also exist in libpthread
@@ -1096,7 +1106,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
(http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/hurd.git/commit/?h=rbraun/select_timeout&id=40fe717ba9093c0c893d9ea44673e46a6f9e0c7d)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-01
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-01
<braunr> damn, i can't manage to make threads calling condition_wait to
dequeue themselves from the condition queue :(
@@ -1132,7 +1142,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> it frightens me because i don't see any flaw in the logic :(
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-02
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-02
<braunr> ah, seems i found a reliable workaround to my deadlock issue, and
more than a workaround, it should increase efficiency by reducing
@@ -1150,7 +1160,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
(/etc/hurd/runsystem i assume)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-03
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-03
<braunr> glibc actually makes some direct use of cthreads condition
variables
@@ -1302,7 +1312,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> tests, reviews, more tests, polishing, commits, packaging
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-04
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-04
<braunr> grmbl, apt-get fails on select in my subhurd with the updated
glibc
@@ -1324,7 +1334,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
and thomas d
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-05
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-05
<braunr> eh, i made dpkg-buildpackage use the patched c library, and it
finished the build oO
@@ -1352,7 +1362,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
extremely large
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-06
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-06
<braunr> i have bad news :( it seems there can be memory corruptions with
my io_select patch
@@ -1395,7 +1405,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
[[libpthread]].
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-07
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-07
<rbraun_hurd> anyone knows of applications extensively using non-blocking
networking functions ?
@@ -1470,7 +1480,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
other for the servers, eh)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-07
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-07
<braunr> when running gitk on [darnassus], yesterday, i could push the CPU
to 100% by simply moving the mouse in the window :p
@@ -1490,7 +1500,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<rbraunh> this linear search on dequeue is a real pain :/
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-09
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-08-09
`screen` doesn't close a window/hangs after exiting the shell.
@@ -1503,7 +1513,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
[[Term_blocking]].
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-05
+### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-05
<braunr> well if i'm unable to build my own packages, i'll send you the one
line patch i wrote that fixes select/poll for the case where there is
@@ -1512,7 +1522,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
timeout, doubling the total wait time when there is no event)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-06
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-06
<braunr> damn, my eglibc patch breaks select :x
<braunr> i guess i'll just simplify the code by using the same path for
@@ -1546,12 +1556,12 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> this can account for the slowness of a bunch of select/poll users
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-07
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-07
<braunr> finally, my select patch works :)
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-08
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-08
<braunr> for those interested, i pushed my eglibc packages that include
this little select/poll timeout fix on my debian repository
@@ -1560,7 +1570,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
regressions
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-10
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-10
<gnu_srs> I have verified your double timeout bug in hurdselect.c.
<gnu_srs> Since I'm also working on hurdselect I have a few questions
@@ -1631,7 +1641,13 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> i'll try the non intrusive mode
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-11
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-26
+
+ <braunr> ah great, one of the recent fixes (probably select-eintr or
+ setitimer) fixed exim4 :)
+
+
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-11
<gnu_srs1> braunr: What is the technical difference of having the delay at
io_select compared to mach_msg for one FD?
@@ -1641,7 +1657,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
<braunr> (for L4 guys it wouldn't be considered a slight optimization :))
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-17
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-17
<braunr> tschwinge:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/glibc.git/log/?h=rbraun/select_timeout_for_one_fd
@@ -1668,20 +1684,20 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
notifications resulting from the way io_select works
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-19
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-19
<braunr> tschwinge: i've tested the glibc rbraun/select_timeout_for_one_fd
branch for a few days on darnassus now, and nothing wrong to report
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-20
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2012-12-20
<youpi> braunr: so, shall I commit the single hurd select timeout fix to
the debian package?
<braunr> youpi: i'd say so yes
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-03
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-03
<braunr> gnu_srs: sorry, i don't understand your poll_timeout patch
<braunr> it basically reverts mine for poll only
@@ -1848,7 +1864,7 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
to the poll stuff: Have to check further with my poll patch...
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-04
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-04
<gnu_srs> Summary of the eglibc-2.13-38 issues: without the
unsubmitted-setitimer_fix.diff patch and with
@@ -2037,6 +2053,388 @@ IRC, unknown channel, unknown date:
See also [[alarm_setitimer]].
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-22
+
+ <gnu_srs> youpi: Maybe it's overkill to have a separate case for DELAY; but
+ it enhances readability (and simplifies a lot too)
+ <youpi> but it reduces factorization
+ <youpi> if select is already supposed to behave the same way as delay,
+ there is no need for a separate code
+ <gnu_srs> OK; I'll make a two-way split then. What about POLL and nfds=0,
+ timeout !=0?
+ <braunr> gnu_srs: handle nfds=0 as a pure timeout as the linux man page
+ describes
+ <braunr> it makes sense, and as other popular systems do it, it's better to
+ do it the same way
+ <braunr> and i disagree with you, factorization doesn't imply less
+ readability
+ <gnu_srs> So you agree with me to have a special case for DELAY?
+ <gnu_srs> Coding style is a matter of taste: for me case a: case b: etc is
+ more readable than "if then elseif then else ..."
+ <braunr> it's not coding style
+ <braunr> avoiding duplication is almost always best
+ <braunr> whatever the style
+ <braunr> i don't see the need for a special delay case
+ <braunr> it's the same mach_msg call
+ <braunr> (for now)
+ <braunr> gnu_srs: i'd say the only reason to duplicate is when you can't do
+ otherwise
+ <gnu_srs> ways of coding then... And I agree with the idea of avoiding code
+ duplication, ever heard of Literate Programming
+ <braunr> we'll need a "special case" when the timeout is handled at the
+ server side, but it's like two lines ..
+
+
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-11
+
+ <youpi> braunr: the libpthread hurd_cond_timedwait_np looks good to me
+
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-15
+
+ <youpi> braunr: does cond_timedwait_np depend on the cancellation fix?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> ok
+ <braunr> the timeout fix
+ <youpi> so I also have to pull that into my glibc build
+ <braunr> (i fixed cancellation too because the cleanup routine had to be
+ adjusted anyway
+ <braunr> )
+ <youpi> ah, and I need the patches hurd package too
+ <braunr> if unsure, you can check my packages
+ <youpi> ok, not for tonight then
+ <braunr> i listed the additional patches in the changelog
+ <youpi> yep, I'll probably use them
+
+
+#### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-11
+
+ <youpi> braunr: I don't understand one change in glibc:
+ <youpi> - err = __io_select (d[i].io_port, d[i].reply_port, 0, &type);
+ <youpi> + err = __io_select (d[i].io_port, d[i].reply_port, type);
+ <braunr> youpi: the waittime parameter ahs been removed
+ <braunr> has*
+ <youpi> where? when?
+ <braunr> in the hurd branch
+ <youpi> in the defs?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> I don't see this change
+ <youpi> only the addition of io_select_timeout
+ <braunr> hum
+ <youpi> also, io_select_timeout should be documented along io_select in
+ hurd.texi
+ <braunr> be6e5b86bdb9055b01ab929cb6b6eec49521ef93
+ <braunr> Selectively compile io_select{,_timeout} as a routine
+ <braunr> * hurd/io.defs (io_select_timeout): Declare as a routine if
+ <braunr> _HURD_IO_SELECT_ROUTINE is defined, or a simpleroutine
+ otherwise.
+ <braunr> (io_select): Likewise. In addition, remove the waittime
+ timeout parameter.
+ <youpi> ah, it's in another commit
+ <braunr> yes, perhaps misplaced
+ <braunr> that's the kind of thing i want to polish
+ <braunr> my main issue currently is that time_data_t is passed by value
+ <braunr> i'm trying to pass it by address
+ <youpi> I don't know the details of routine vs simpleroutine
+ <braunr> it made sense for me to remove the waittime parameter at the same
+ time as adding the _HURD_IO_SELECT_ROUTINE macro, since waittime is what
+ allows glibc to use a synchronous RPC in an asynchronous way
+ <youpi> is it only a matter of timeout parameter?
+ <braunr> simpleroutine sends a message
+ <braunr> routine sends and receives
+ <braunr> by having a waittime parameter, _hurd_select could make io_select
+ send a message and return before having a reply
+ <youpi> ah, that's why in glibc you replaced MACH_RCV_TIMED_OUT by 0
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> it seems a bit odd to have a two-face call
+ <braunr> it is
+ <youpi> can't we just keep it as such?
+ <braunr> no
+ <youpi> damn
+ <braunr> well we could, but it really wouldn't make any sense
+ <youpi> why not?
+ <braunr> because the way select is implemented implies io_select doesn't
+ expect a reply
+ <braunr> (except for the single df case but that's an optimization)
+ <braunr> fd*
+ <youpi> that's how it is already, yes?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> well yes and no
+ <braunr> that's complicated :)
+ <braunr> there are two passes
+ <braunr> let me check before saying anything ;p
+ <youpi> :)
+ <youpi> in the io_select(timeout=0) case, can it ever happen that we
+ receive an answer?
+ <braunr> i don't think it is
+ <braunr> you mean non blocking right ?
+ <braunr> not infinite timeout
+ <youpi> I mean calling io_select with the timeout parameter being set to 0
+ <braunr> so yes, non blocking
+ <braunr> no, i think we always get MACH_RCV_TIMED_OUT
+ <youpi> for me non-blocking can mean a lot of things :)
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> i was thinking mach_msg here
+ <braunr> ok so, let's not consider the single fd case
+ <braunr> the first pass simply calls io_select with a timeout 0 to send
+ messages
+ <youpi> I don't think it's useful to try to optimize it
+ <youpi> it'd only lead to bugs :)
+ <braunr> me neither
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> (as was shown :) )
+ <braunr> what seems useful to me however is to optimize the io_select call
+ <braunr> with a waittime parameter, the generated code is an RPC (send |
+ receive)
+ <braunr> whereas, as a simpleroutine, it becomes a simple send
+ <youpi> ok
+ <youpi> my concern is that, as you change it, you change the API of the
+ __io_select() function
+ <youpi> (from libhurduser)
+ <braunr> yes but glibc is the only user
+ <braunr> and actually no
+ <braunr> i mean
+ <braunr> i change the api at the client side only
+ <youpi> that's what I mean
+ <braunr> remember that io.Defs is almost full
+ <youpi> "full" ?
+ <braunr> i'm almost certain it becomes full with io_select_timeout
+ <braunr> there is a practical limit of 100 calls per interface iirc
+ <braunr> since the reply identifiers are request + 100
+ <youpi> are we at it already?
+ <braunr> i remember i had problems with it so probably
+ <youpi> but anyway, I'm not thinking about introducing yet another RPC
+ <youpi> but get a reasonable state of io_select
+ <braunr> i'l have to check that limit
+ <braunr> it looks wrong now
+ <braunr> or was it 50
+ <braunr> i don't remember :/
+ <braunr> i understand
+ <braunr> but what i can guarantee is that, while the api changes at the
+ client side, it doesn't at the server side
+ <youpi> ideally, the client api of io_select could be left as it is, and
+ libc use it as a simpleroutine
+ <youpi> sure, I understand that
+ <braunr> which means glibc, whether patched or not, still works fine with
+ that call
+ <braunr> yes it could
+ <braunr> that's merely a performance optimization
+ <youpi> my concern is that an API depends on the presence of
+ _HURD_IO_SELECT_ROUTINE, and backward compatibility being brought by
+ defining it! :)
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> i personally don't mind much
+ <youpi> I'd rather avoid the clutter
+ <braunr> what do you mean ?
+ <youpi> anything that avoids this situation
+ <youpi> like just using timeout = 0
+ <braunr> well, in that case, we'll have both a useless timeout at the
+ client side
+ <braunr> and another call for truely passing a timeout
+ <braunr> that's also weird
+ <youpi> how so a useless timeout at the client side?
+ <braunr> 22:39 < youpi> - err = __io_select (d[i].io_port, d[i].reply_port,
+ 0, &type);
+ <braunr> 0 here is the waittime parameter
+ <youpi> that's a 0-timeout
+ <braunr> and it will have to be 0
+ <youpi> yes
+ <braunr> that's confusing
+ <youpi> ah, you mean the two io_select calls?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> but isn't that necessary for the several-fd case, anyway?
+ <braunr> ?
+ <braunr> if the io_select calls are simple routines, this useless waittime
+ parameter can just be omitted like i did
+ <youpi> don't we *have* to make several calls when we select on several
+ fds?
+ <braunr> suure but i don't see how it's related
+ <youpi> well then I don't see what optimization you are doing then
+ <youpi> except dropping a parameter
+ <youpi> which does not bring much to my standard :)
+ <braunr> a simpleroutine makes mach_msg take a much shorter path
+ <youpi> that the 0-timeout doesn't take?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> it's a send | receive
+ <youpi> ok, but that's why I asked before
+ <braunr> so there are a bunch of additional checks until the timeout is
+ handled
+ <youpi> whether timeout=0 means we can't get a receive
+ <youpi> and thus the kernel could optimize
+ <braunr> that's not the same thing :)
+ <youpi> ok
+ <braunr> it's a longer path to the same result
+ <youpi> I'd really rather see glibc building its own private simpleroutine
+ version of io_select
+ <youpi> iirc we already have such kind of thing
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> well there are io_request and io_reply defs
+ <braunr> but i haven't seen them used anywhere
+ <braunr> but agreed, we should do that
+ <youpi> braunr: the prototype for io_select seems bogus in the io_request,
+ id_tag is no more since ages :)
+ <braunr> youpi: yes
+ <braunr> youpi: i'll recreate my hurd branch with only one commit
+ <braunr> without the routine/simpleroutine hack
+ <braunr> and with time_data_t passed by address
+ <braunr> and perhaps other very minor changes
+ <youpi> braunr: the firstfd == -1 test needs a comment
+ <braunr> or better, i'll create a v2 branch to make it easy to compare them
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> braunr: actually it's also the other branch of the if which needs a
+ comment: "we rely on servers implementing the timeout"
+ <braunr> youpi: ok
+ <youpi> - (msg.success.result & SELECT_ALL) == 0)
+ <youpi> why removing that test?
+ <youpi> you also need to document the difference between got and ready
+ <braunr> hm i'll have to remember
+ <braunr> i wrote this code like a year ago :)
+ <braunr> almost
+ <youpi> AIUI, got is the number of replies
+ <braunr> but i think it has to do with error handling
+ <braunr> and
+ <braunr> + if (d[i].type)
+ <braunr> + ++ready;
+ <youpi> while ready is the number of successful replies
+ <braunr> is what replaces it
+ <braunr> youpi: yes
+ <braunr> the poll wrapper already normalizes the timeout parameter to
+ _hurd_select
+ <braunr> no you probably don't
+ <braunr> the whole point of the patch is to remove this ugly hack
+ <braunr> youpi: ok so
+ <braunr> 23:24 < youpi> - (msg.success.result & SELECT_ALL)
+ == 0)
+ <braunr> when a request times out
+ <youpi> ah, right
+ <braunr> we could get a result with no event
+ <braunr> and no error
+ <braunr> and this is what makes got != ready
+ <youpi> tell that to the source, not me :)
+ <braunr> sure :)
+ <braunr> i'm also saying it to myself
+ <braunr> ... :)
+ <youpi> right, using io_select_request() is only an optimization, which we
+ can do later
+ <braunr> what i currently do is remove the waittime parameter from
+ io_select
+ <braunr> what we'll do instead (soon) is let the parameter there to keep
+ the API unchancged
+ <braunr> but always use a waittime of 0
+ <braunr> to make the mach_msg call non blocking
+ <braunr> then we'll try to get the io_request/io_reply definitions back so
+ we can have simpleroutines (send only) version of the io RPCs
+ <braunr> and we'll use io_select_request (without a waittime)
+ <braunr> youpi: is that what you understood too ?
+ <youpi> yes
+ <youpi> (and we can do that later)
+ <braunr> gnu_srs: does it make more sense for you ?
+ <braunr> this change is quite sparsed so it's not easy to get the big
+ picture
+ <braunr> sparse*
+ <braunr> it requires changes in libpthread, the hurd, and glibc
+ <youpi> the libpthread change can be almost forgotten
+ <youpi> it's just yet another cond_foo function :)
+ <braunr> well not if he's building his own packages
+ <youpi> right
+ <youpi> ok, apart from the io_select_request() and documenting the newer
+ io_select_timeout(), the changes seem good to me
+ <braunr> youpi: actually, a send | timeout takes the slow path in mach_msg
+ <braunr> and i actually wonder if send | receive | timeout = 0 can get a
+ valid reply from the server
+ <braunr> but the select code already handles that so it shouldn't be much
+ of a problem
+ <youpi> k
+
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-12
+
+ <braunr> hum
+ <braunr> io_select_timeout actually has to be a simpleroutine at the client
+ side :/
+ <braunr> grmbl
+ <youpi> ah?
+ <braunr> otherwise it blocks
+ <youpi> how so?
+ <braunr> routines wait for replies
+ <youpi> even with timeout 0?
+ <braunr> there is no waittime for io_select_timeout
+ <braunr> adding one would be really weird
+ <youpi> oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about io_select
+ <braunr> it would be more interesting to directly use
+ io_select_timeout_request
+ <braunr> but this means additional and separate work to make the
+ request/reply defs up to date
+ <braunr> and used
+ <braunr> personally i don't mind, but it matters for wheezy
+ <braunr> youpi: i suppose it's not difficult to add .defs to glibc, is it ?
+ <braunr> i mean, make glibc build the stub code
+ <youpi> it's probably not difficult indeed
+ <braunr> ok then it's better to do that first
+ <youpi> yes
+ <youpi> there's faultexec for instance in hurd/Makefile
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> or rather, apparently it'd be simply user-interfaces
+ <youpi> it'll probably be linked into libhurduser
+ <youpi> but with an odd-enough name it shouldn't matter
+ <braunr> youpi: adding io_request to the list does indeed build the RPCs :)
+ <braunr> i'll write a patch to sync io/io_reply/io_request
+ <braunr> youpi: oh by the way, i'm having a small issue with the
+ io_{reply,request} interfaces
+ <braunr> the generated headers both share the same enclosing macro
+ (_io_user)
+ <braunr> so i'm getting compiler warning
+ <braunr> s
+ <youpi> we could fix that quickly in mig, couldn't we?
+ <braunr> youpi: i suppose, yes, just mentioning
+
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-19
+
+ <youpi> in the hurdselect.c code, I'd rather see it td[0]. rather than
+ td->
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> otherwise it's frownprone
+ <youpi> (it has just made me frown :) )
+ <braunr> yes, that looked odd to me too, but at the same time, i didn't
+ want it to seem to contain several elements
+ <youpi> I prefer it to look like there could be several elements (and then
+ the reader has to find out how many, i.e. 1), rather than it to look like
+ the pointer is not initialized
+ <braunr> right
+ <youpi> I'll also rather move that code further
+ <youpi> so the preparation can set timeout to 0
+ <youpi> (needed for poll)
+ <youpi> how about turning your branch into a tg branch?
+ <braunr> feel free to add your modifications on top of it
+ <braunr> sure
+ <youpi> ok
+ <youpi> I'll handle these then
+ <braunr> youpi: i made an updated changelog entry in the
+ io_select_timeout_v3 branch
+ <youpi> could you rather commit that to the t/io_select_timeout branch I've
+ just created?
+ <braunr> i mean, i did that a few days ago
+ <youpi> (in the .topmsg file)
+ <youpi> ah
+ <youpi> k
+
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-26
+
+ <braunr> youpi: i've just pushed a rbraun/select_timeout_pthread_v4 branch
+ in the hurd repository that includes the changes we discussed yesterday
+ <braunr> untested, but easy to compare with the previous version
+
+
+##### IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-27
+
+ <youpi> braunr: io_select_timeout seems to be working fine here
+ <youpi> braunr: I feel like uploading them to debian-ports, what do you
+ think?
+ <braunr> youpi: the packages i rebuild last night work fine too
+
+
# See Also
See also [[select_bogus_fd]] and [[select_vs_signals]].
diff --git a/open_issues/select_vs_signals.mdwn b/open_issues/select_vs_signals.mdwn
index 9e9699b..db616ac 100644
--- a/open_issues/select_vs_signals.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/select_vs_signals.mdwn
@@ -42,6 +42,21 @@ In context of [[alarm_setitimer]].
Proposed patch: [[!message-id
"20130105162817.GW5965@type.youpi.perso.aquilenet.fr"]].
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-15
+
+ <_d3f> Hello, any one else having problems with git?
+ <braunr> _d3f: yes
+ <braunr> _d3f: it will be fixed in the next glibc release
+ <_d3f> oh thx. what was the problem?
+ <braunr> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2013-01/msg00005.html
+ <WhiteKIBA> exactly this problem is preventing us building glibc
+ <braunr> it's indeed very annoying
+ <braunr> and this fix will probably have a visible and positive effect on
+ other issues
+ <_d3f> let's hope so.
+ <braunr> well, i'm already using it and see the difference
+
---
See also [[select]] and [[select_bogus_fd]].
diff --git a/open_issues/some_todo_list.mdwn b/open_issues/some_todo_list.mdwn
index 82822a2..80592ab 100644
--- a/open_issues/some_todo_list.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/some_todo_list.mdwn
@@ -27,7 +27,6 @@ From Marcus, 2002:
* xkb driver for console (for international users)
* kbd leds in console (well, in general, Roland's new driver in oskit for that crap)
-* fixing fakeroot (it's buggy)
* fixing tmpfs (it's buggy, Neal says it's Mach's fault)
* adding posix shared memory (requires the io\_close call to be implemented)
* adding posix file locking (requires the io\_close call to be implemented)
diff --git a/open_issues/subhurd_vs_proc_server.mdwn b/open_issues/subhurd_vs_proc_server.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..36d150f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/open_issues/subhurd_vs_proc_server.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,54 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-09
+
+ <youpi> also, can you actually gdb a process of another subhurd?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> but you need to talk to its proc server, don't you?
+ <braunr> i don't know
+ <braunr> but i did it several times
+ <youpi> how?
+ <braunr> the usual way
+ <braunr> gdb /path/to/bin pid
+ <youpi> but which pid?
+ <braunr> the hard part was finding the right pid
+ <youpi> well, gdb still needs to talk with the right proc too
+ <braunr> i don't think it does
+ <youpi> btw about the "unable to adjust libports thread priority" errors
+ I'm seeing on the buildd consoles
+ <braunr> from what i've seen, proc "creates" tasks when it first sees them
+ too
+ <youpi> it's about the destination port
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> i have those when starting a subhurd too
+ <youpi> so it would mean that proc somehow got bogus
+ <youpi> ah
+ <youpi> so you can actually use your own proc
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> and it feels bogus to me
+ <youpi> and I guess mach lets that proc access the task because your proc
+ is privileged
+ <braunr> probably
+ <braunr> it feels bogus because, you can't rely on pids being allocated per
+ task
+ <braunr> what i mean is that, if some tasks spawn and die quickly
+ <braunr> and you start another application running long enough to see it in
+ ps
+ <braunr> it's pid will be +1, not +the number of created tasks
+ <braunr> which means the proc server will never have seen those previous
+ tasks
+ <braunr> it's minor but a bit confusing
+ <braunr> i personally don't like seeing the tasks of other systems in ps :/
+ <braunr> and despite the ability to use gdb from another hurd, i think we
+ should improve the intra system debugging tools
diff --git a/open_issues/syslog.mdwn b/open_issues/syslog.mdwn
index 19cba82..ab32b2e 100644
--- a/open_issues/syslog.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/syslog.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2012 Free Software Foundation,
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
@@ -13,6 +13,7 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
[[!toc]]
+
# IRC, unknown channel, unknown date
<tschwinge> scolobb: In wiki edit 60accafa79f645ae61b578403f7fc0c11914b725
@@ -105,3 +106,11 @@ IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2011-11-02:
<antrik> it depends on how many things are actually logged. IIRC the hang
happens when some client sends 128 messages to syslog or something like
that
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-09
+
+ <pinotree> tschwinge: looks like now you could disable syslog no
+ <pinotree> ... more
+ <tschwinge> It that working now?
+ <pinotree> should be yes, samuel fixed its issue many months ago
diff --git a/open_issues/system_stats.mdwn b/open_issues/system_stats.mdwn
index 9a13b29..ce34ec0 100644
--- a/open_issues/system_stats.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/system_stats.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -37,3 +37,9 @@ system statistics, how to interpret them, and some example/expected values.
<mcsim> yes
<braunr> (a test that fails with the 2G/2G split of the debian kernel, but
not on your vanilla version btw)
+
+
+## IRC, frenode, #hurd, 2013-01-26
+
+ <braunr> ah great, one of the recent fixes (probably select-eintr or
+ setitimer) fixed exim4 :)
diff --git a/open_issues/systemd.mdwn b/open_issues/systemd.mdwn
index 1d77430..c23f887 100644
--- a/open_issues/systemd.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/systemd.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -92,7 +93,16 @@ Likely there's also some other porting needed.
<pochu> agreed
-# Requires Interfaces
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-18
+
+ <braunr> systemd relies on linux specific stuff that is difficult to
+ implement
+ <braunr> notably cgroups to isolate the deamons it starts so it knows when
+ they stopped regardless of their pid
+ <braunr> just assume you can't use systemd on anything else than linux
+
+
+# Required Interfaces
In the thread starting
[here](http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/07/threads.html#00269), a
diff --git a/open_issues/translators_set_up_by_untrusted_users.mdwn b/open_issues/translators_set_up_by_untrusted_users.mdwn
index 1dac130..521331e 100644
--- a/open_issues/translators_set_up_by_untrusted_users.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/translators_set_up_by_untrusted_users.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -350,3 +350,230 @@ IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-09-14:
<antrik> cjuner: either glibc or the parent translators
Continued discussion about [[resource_management_problems/pagers]].
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-24
+
+ <braunr> on a more general topic, i've been thinking about client and
+ server trust
+ <braunr> there have been many talkbs about it regarding l4/coyotos/hurdng
+ <youpi> I generally think the client can trust the server
+ <braunr> and passing the select timeout to servers corroborates this
+ <youpi> because it's either root, or it's the same user
+ <braunr> hum yes, but that's not exactly my question, you'll see
+ <braunr> there is one feature the hurd has, and i'm not sure we should have
+ it considering what it requires
+ <braunr> the feature is that clients can, at any time, "break" from a
+ server
+ <youpi> "break" ?
+ <braunr> the current implementation is to cancel the current RPC after 3
+ seconds without a reply when the user sends SIGINT
+ <braunr> the problem is that, moving to a complete migrating thread model
+ would make that impossible (or very complicated to do right)
+
+[[mach_migrating_threads]].
+
+ <braunr> would it be ok to remove this feature ?
+ <youpi> well, we need to have SIGINT working, don't we?
+ <braunr> obviously
+ <braunr> but that's not what the feature is meant to do
+ <braunr> it allows clients to recover from a server that misbehaves and
+ doesn't return
+ <youpi> then I don't understand in enough details what you mean :)
+ <braunr> imagine a buggy driver in linux that gets into an uninterruptible
+ sleep
+ <braunr> you can't even kill your process
+ <braunr> that's what the feature is meant to solve
+ <youpi> that's a quite useful thing
+ <youpi> e.g. stuck nfs etc., it's useful to be able to recover from that
+ <braunr> forbidding uninterruptible sleeps would also be a solution, but
+ then it means relying on servers acting right
+ <braunr> which is why i mention we usually trust servers
+ <youpi> well, there is "trust" and "trust" :)
+ <youpi> i.e. security-wise and robustness-wise
+ <youpi> I meant clients can usually trust servers security-wise
+ <braunr> my current idea for x15 is to forbid this kind of breaking, but
+ also forbid uninterruptible sleeps
+ <youpi> robustness-wise, I'd say no
+ <braunr> this way, sending a signal directly reaches the server, which is
+ trusted to return right away (well, conforming to the handling behaviour)
+ <braunr> so yes, buggy servers would prevent that, but on the other hand,
+ stuck nfs wouldn't
+ <youpi> provided the nfs implementation is not bogus
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> I'd tend to agree, but would rather see this discussed on the list
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> actually, it wouldn't be that hard to keep the current behaviour,
+ since i won't implement true migrating threads
+ <braunr> but it means retaining some issues we have (most importantely,
+ denial of service)
+ <braunr> -e
+ <braunr> what i want to avoid is
+ http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/ng/cancellationforwarding.html
+ <youpi> for non-trusted servers, we could have a safety wrapper
+ <youpi> which we trust and does things carefully when talking with the
+ non-trusted server
+ <braunr> what would a non trusted server be ?
+ <youpi> whatever is neither root nor me
+ <youpi> e.g. nobody-provided /ftp:, or $HOME of another user, etc.
+ <braunr> i'd argue we don't talk to non trusted servers at all, period
+ <youpi> users won't like it :)
+ <braunr> and i'd extend root to a system provided list
+ <youpi> actually the nobody /ftp: case is important
+ <braunr> users should be able to create their own list of trusted users
+ <youpi> it's also the nobody /dev/null case
+ <youpi> atm it's root
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> i see the point
+ <braunr> i'm just saying the idea of "using non-trusted server" doesn't
+ make sense
+ <youpi> actually running /ftp: under nobody is dangerous
+ <youpi> since if you're running as nobody (because you broke into the
+ system or whatever), then you can poke with nobody-provided servers
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> so we'd rather have really-nobody processes
+ <braunr> taht's an already existing problem
+ <youpi> which can't be poked into
+ <youpi> (and thus can't poke into each other)
+ <braunr> or a separate user for each
+ <youpi> that'd be difficult
+ <braunr> or separate tokens, it's not important
+ <youpi> for /ftp:/ftp.debian.org used by someone, and /ftp:/ftp.foo.org
+ used by someone else
+ <braunr> what i mean is that, by talking to a server, a client implicitely
+ trusts it
+ <braunr> youpi: wouldn't that just be the same "ftp" user ?
+ <youpi> ideally, a carefully-crafted client could avoid having to trust it
+ <braunr> really ?
+ <youpi> braunr: that's the problem: then each ftpfs can poke on each other
+ <braunr> well, each global one
+ <youpi> there's the daemon-sharing issue too, yes
+ <braunr> i wasn't thinking about ftpfs, but rather the "system" pfinet for
+ example
+ <youpi> like /dev/null is shared
+ <braunr> when you say root or me, it's "system" or me
+ <braunr> by default, users trust their system
+ <braunr> they don't trust other users
+ <youpi> avoid having to trust it: yes, by using timeouts etc.
+ <braunr> that's clearly not enough
+ <youpi> why?
+ <braunr> shapiro described this in a mail but i can't find it right now
+ <youpi> I wouldn't like to have to trust ftpfs
+ <braunr> well time is one thing, data provided for example is another
+ <braunr> well, you do
+ <youpi> who knows what bug ftpfs has
+ <youpi> ideally I would be able not to have to
+ <youpi> braunr: you can check data
+ <braunr> i don't think that ideal is possible
+ <braunr> it you set a ftp translator with a user account, you give it the
+ password
+ <youpi> which password?
+ <braunr> the account password
+ <youpi> which account?
+ <braunr> "a user account"
+ <braunr> i.e. not anonymoius
+ <youpi> ah
+ <youpi> well, sure, you have to give that to ftpfs
+ <youpi> I mean the ftp server might be malicious or whatever
+ <youpi> and trigger a bug in ftpfs
+ <braunr> yes
+ <youpi> so I don't want to have to trust ftpfs
+ <braunr> what would that mean in practice ?
+ <youpi> have a trusted translation layer which papers over it, checking
+ timeouts & data
+ <braunr> how do you check data ?
+ <youpi> by knowing the protocol
+ <braunr> ?
+ <braunr> can you give a quick example ?
+ <youpi> well, which data check do you need?
+ <youpi> (it's you who mentioned data issues :) )
+ <braunr> i don't know what you mean by that so, choose as you see fit
+ <braunr> well the password one for example
+ <braunr> i was merely saying that, buy using an application, be it a
+ regular one or a translator, you automatically trust it
+ <youpi> you mean the ftp user password ?
+ <braunr> it becomes part of your tcb
+ <youpi> of course you have to provide it to ftpfs
+ <youpi> that's not a problem
+ <youpi> yes, but it's not because you connect to an http website that you
+ trust the webserver on the other end
+ <youpi> your web browser does checking for you
+ <braunr> when the protocol allows it
+ <braunr> (in this case, i'm thinking assymmetrical cryptography)
+ <youpi> in which case example doesn't it ?
+ <youpi> it seems we're not talking about the same kind of issue, thus not
+ understanding each other
+ <braunr> indeed
+ <youpi> by "trusting", I don't mean "be sure that it's the right server at
+ the other end"
+ <braunr> my point is that not trusting a server is impossible
+ <youpi> I mean "it behaves correectly"
+ <braunr> yes
+ <braunr> it may not behave correctly, and we might not know it
+ <youpi> as long as it doesn't make the program crash, that's fine
+ <youpi> that's what I mean
+ <braunr> that's where the difference is
+ <youpi> but giving the password is not my concern here
+ <youpi> and giving the password is a matter of cryptography, etc. yes, but
+ that's completely not my point
+ <braunr> i'm concerned about absolute correct behaviour
+ <braunr> hm
+ <braunr> no actually i was
+ <braunr> but not any more, the discussion has shifted back to the timeout
+ issue
+ <braunr> ah no, i remember
+ <braunr> we talked about which servers to trust
+ <braunr> and how to alter communication accordingly
+ <braunr> and my point was that altering communication shouldn't be done, we
+ either trust the server, and talk to it, or we don't, and we stay away
+ <braunr> the wrapper would help for this specific blocking issue, yes
+ <youpi> I don't agree on this
+ <youpi> let me take a way more simple example
+ <youpi> a server that provides data through io_read
+ <youpi> I don't want to trust it because it's provided by some joe user
+ <youpi> but I still want to have a look at the data that it produces
+ <youpi> I'm fine that the data may be completely non-sense, that's not a
+ problem
+ <youpi> what is a problem, however, is if the hexdump program I've run over
+ it can't be ^C-ed
+ <braunr> yes, that's the specific issue i mentioned
+ <youpi> and for that, a mere trusted intermediate could be enough
+ <braunr> iirc, there is a firmlink-related issue
+ <youpi> ?
+ <braunr>
+ http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/translators_set_up_by_untrusted_users.html
+ <youpi> I'm not able to guess what conclusion you are drawing here :)
+ <braunr> don't talk to untrusted servers
+ <youpi> or be careful
+ <youpi> the rm -fr /tmp being aabout being careful actually
+ <braunr> right
+ <braunr> i have a very unix-centric view for my system actually
+ <braunr> i think posix compatibility is very important for me
+ <braunr> more than it seems to have been in the past when the hurd was
+ designed
+ <braunr> to* me
+ <braunr> so i don't trust tools to be careful
+ <youpi> that's why a wrapping translator could make it back to posix
+ compatibility
+ <braunr> but i see what you mean
+ <youpi> being careful for the tools
+ <braunr> hum, a wrapping _translator_ ?
+ <youpi> yes, similar to remap and fakeroot
+ <braunr> ok
+ <youpi> you'd tell it "for this path, please be careful for my tools"
+ <braunr> ok so
+ <braunr> it would basically still end up trusting system or me
+ <braunr> but you'd add this wrapper to the system
+ <youpi> "it" ?
+ <braunr> the situation
+ <braunr> i don't know :)
+ <braunr> the implementation, whatever
+ <youpi> the shell I'm running, you mean
+ <braunr> and it would be the job of this translator to shield the user
+ <youpi> yes
+ <braunr> that's a good idea, yes
+ <youpi> it could reduce the allowed RPC set to what it knows to check
+ <braunr> how would the shell use it ?
+ <braunr> would it "shadow" / ?
+ <youpi> yes
+ <braunr> ok
diff --git a/open_issues/virtualization.mdwn b/open_issues/virtualization.mdwn
index 10cf73d..34074c1 100644
--- a/open_issues/virtualization.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/virtualization.mdwn
@@ -46,3 +46,5 @@ An index of things to work on w.r.t. virtualization.
* [[Networking]]
* [[remap_root_translator]]
+
+ * [[fakeroot]]
diff --git a/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn b/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..ec762b5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/open_issues/virtualization/fakeroot.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+[[!tag open_issue_hurd]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-26
+
+ <youpi> btw, about fakeroot-hurd
+ <youpi> the remaining issue I see is with argv[0] (yes, again...)
diff --git a/open_issues/virtualization/remap_root_translator.mdwn b/open_issues/virtualization/remap_root_translator.mdwn
index 3cb574a..67d64ae 100644
--- a/open_issues/virtualization/remap_root_translator.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/virtualization/remap_root_translator.mdwn
@@ -95,3 +95,47 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<youpi> his own one
<braunr> ok
<youpi> attached to the remapping
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-01-29
+
+ <youpi> ok, the remap translator was too easy
+ <youpi> just took fakeroot.c
+ <youpi> added if (!strcmp("bin/foo", filename)) filename =
+ "bin/bash"; in
+ <youpi> netfs_S_dir_lookup
+ <youpi> and it just works
+ <youpi> ok, remap does indeed take my own pfinet
+ <youpi> good :)
+ <youpi> pfinet's tun seems to be working too
+ <youpi> it's however not really flexible, it has to show up in /dev/tunx
+ <youpi> I'll have a look at fixing that
+ <youpi> yep, works fine
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-01
+
+ <youpi> braunr: as I expected, simply passing FS_RETRY_REAUTH does the
+ remapping trick
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-12
+
+ <braunr>
+ http://darnassus.sceen.net/~hurd-web/community/gsoc/project_ideas/server_overriding/
+ <braunr> youpi: isn't that your remap translator ?
+ <youpi> completely
+ <youpi> remap being (5)
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-25
+
+ <youpi> I'm just having an issue with getcwd getting in the sky
+ <youpi> I wonder whether libc might need patching to understand it's in
+ some sort of chroot
+ <youpi> or perhaps remap fixed into avoiding .. of / being odd
+ <youpi> erf, it's actually an explicit error
+ <youpi> libc just doesn't want to have a ".." / being different from CRDIR
+ <youpi> let me just comment out that :)
+ <youpi> way better :)
+ <youpi> yep, just works fine
diff --git a/open_issues/vm_map_kernel_bug.mdwn b/open_issues/vm_map_kernel_bug.mdwn
index 613c131..159e9d0 100644
--- a/open_issues/vm_map_kernel_bug.mdwn
+++ b/open_issues/vm_map_kernel_bug.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -52,3 +52,20 @@ License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<braunr> it could be that gnumach isn't good at aligning to large values
[[!message-id "87fw4pb4c7.fsf@kepler.schwinge.homeip.net"]]
+
+
+# IRC, frenode, #hurd, 2013-01-22
+
+In context of [[libpthread]].
+
+ <braunr> pinotree: do you understand what the fmh function does in
+ sysdeps/mach/hurd/dl-sysdep.c ?
+ <braunr> ok i understand what it does
+ <braunr> and youpi has changed the code, so he does too
+ <braunr> youpi: do you have a suggestion about how to solve this issue in
+ the fmh function ?
+ <youpi> do we remember which bug it's after?
+ <braunr> what do you mean ?
+ <braunr> ah
+ <braunr> no :/
+ <braunr> it could be a good occasion to get rid of it, yes
diff --git a/public_hurd_boxen.mdwn b/public_hurd_boxen.mdwn
index 1e60022..65cc340 100644
--- a/public_hurd_boxen.mdwn
+++ b/public_hurd_boxen.mdwn
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Free
-Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
+Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -33,6 +33,7 @@ image|hurd/running/qemu]].
"[[sceen]]","exodar","Debian GNU/Hurd","Core i5 3.1 GHz, 1.8 GiB","KVM guest on shattrath; Debian porterbox, all Debian Developers have access"
"[[sceen]]","shattrath","Debian GNU/Linux","Core i5 3.1 GHz","KVM host"
"Debian","strauss","Debian GNU/Hurd","Sempron 2800+","all Debian Developers have access"
+"[libav](http://www.libav.org/)","[x86_32-hurd-gcc-4.7](http://fate.libav.org/x86_32-hurd-gcc-4.7)","Debian GNU/Hurd","","libav instance of the [FATE Automated Test Environment](http://www.libav.org/fate.html)"
"""]]
If you are a Debian Developer, you can log into the exodar or strauss machines
diff --git a/public_hurd_boxen/installation/darnassus.mdwn b/public_hurd_boxen/installation/darnassus.mdwn
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..156e40c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/public_hurd_boxen/installation/darnassus.mdwn
@@ -0,0 +1,170 @@
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+
+# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-09
+
+ <tschwinge> We need an httpd (Apache used to work), and ikiwiki and some
+ such stuff.
+ <tschwinge> This has its own git repository.
+ <tschwinge> This was on a separate virtual machine.
+ <tschwinge> Then there was the Git repository on flubber used for people to
+ push to.
+ <tschwinge> Ho -- let me actually try to remember the setup. Has been some
+ years...
+ <braunr> what machine currently hosts the wiki ?
+ <tschwinge> Anyway, there is no requirement for the web server to be on a
+ separate machine; your decision.
+ <tschwinge> braunr: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/public_hurd_boxen.html
+ <tschwinge> snubber
+ <tschwinge> That was the web server.
+ <braunr> isn't it gnu.org ?
+ <tschwinge> And flubber had the repository for developers to push to.
+ <tschwinge> No, gnu.org is updated manually (by me).
+ <braunr> ah
+ <tschwinge> It'S a snapshot of the wiki so to say.
+ <braunr> ok so, is this wiki really meant to be modifiable from a browser ?
+ <tschwinge>
+ http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/contributing/web_pages.html#index5h2
+ <tschwinge> Yes.
+ <braunr> i see
+ <tschwinge> I should still be able to access the data from Barry's zenhost
+ (including all the VMs it hosted), so I should be able to replicate that
+ quite easily.
+ <braunr> do you think it could be hosted on darnassus, or would you like a
+ separate vm ?
+ <tschwinge> The repository for people to push to and pull from (used to be
+ on flubber) would be on darnassus now.
+ <tschwinge> About the web server, hmm.
+ <tschwinge> It's basically a security concern.
+ <tschwinge> And it might get hammered by bots from time to time.
+ <braunr> it won't need much resources i suppose
+ <tschwinge> No. The web server (snubber) was running with 242 MiB of RAM,
+ and had uptimes of several weeks typically.
+ <braunr> tschwinge: otherwise, could it use the web server running on the
+ host ?
+ <tschwinge> The host being darnassus?
+ <braunr> no
+ <braunr> shattrath, the linux system
+ <tschwinge> Ah.
+ <tschwinge> Sure.
+ <tschwinge> There is no requirement this to be a Hurd system -- was just
+ nice to show to people.
+ <braunr> i think it is too
+ <braunr> what's the problem with darnassus ?
+ <braunr> yçou mentioned security
+ <tschwinge> The web server being a public-facing component which might be
+ broken into.
+ <braunr> how ?
+ <braunr> it's so much easier to just ask for an account .. :)
+ <tschwinge> Web server bugs, CGI script bugs, etc.
+ <tschwinge> Sure.
+ <tschwinge> I just wanted to make you aware of it. :-)
+ <braunr> oh don't worry
+ <braunr> ok so darnassus it is
+ <pinotree> was it running apache? maybe, if other (lighter?) web servers
+ are tested to work on hurd, they could be used
+ <tschwinge> pinotree: Yes, and yes.
+ <braunr> doesn't ikiwiki need php ?
+ <tschwinge> Only requirement (I think) is abaility to run CGI scripts.
+ <tschwinge> braunr: No. It's written in perl.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> i still think i'll use apache
+ <braunr> it's really not that heavy
+ <braunr> lighter servers matter when the number of concurrent clients get
+ very high
+ <tschwinge> Then I'll figure out how exactly the setup was between flubber
+ and snubber.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <braunr> it's good to finally get that going :)
+ <tschwinge> braunr: Of course ;-) -- I had some parts of the process
+ documented:
+ http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/public_hurd_boxen/installation/snubber.html
+ <tschwinge> If both Git repositories are to be on the same machine
+ (darnassus) we might not actually need inetutils-inetd and netcat.
+ <tschwinge> Still trying to figure out what I had done there... ;-)
+ <tschwinge> OK, I again understand the setup. Last been touched in the
+ 2008/2009 timeframe. ;-)
+ <braunr> :)
+ <tschwinge> braunr: Please use the following ikiwiki packages: dpkg -i
+ ~tschwinge/tmp/ikiwiki_3.20110608_all.deb
+ <braunr> what makes this package special ?
+ <tschwinge> Some patch that I added to get rendering of our news pages
+ correct.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <tschwinge> I have not updated it ever since (and the patch was not yet in
+ a suitable form for upstream).
+ <tschwinge> Nothing major.
+ <braunr> tschwinge: why is the ikiwiki package status hi ?
+ <tschwinge> braunr: I set it to hold.
+ <braunr> ah ok
+ <braunr> so you finished your pat i suppose
+ <braunr> i'll install apache
+ <braunr> part*
+ <tschwinge> I'll add a hurd-web user.
+ <tschwinge> So... I actually have to locate a backup of the files from
+ flubber related to the wiki,
+ * tschwinge goes searching his backup devices.
+ <braunr> i added userdirs on darnassus' apache
+ <tschwinge> braunr: I just noticed when I wanted to add it myself. ;-)
+ <tschwinge> braunr: Do you know about CGI scripts?
+ <braunr> yes
+ <tschwinge> braunr: snubber had these in /var/www/cgi-bin/; darnassus now
+ in /usr/lib/cgi-bin/.
+ <tschwinge> ikiwiki needs to install one CGI script.
+ <braunr> ok
+ <tschwinge> Does this go into /usr/lib/cgi-bin/ then? Or into ~hurd-web/
+ and a symlink somewhere?
+ <braunr> ikiwiki should have installed it where it's appropriate
+ <braunr> normally in /usr/lib/cgi-bin/
+ <tschwinge> It's a CGI script that is generated per ikiwiki instance, so
+ specific to hurd-web.
+ <braunr> where does it install it by default ?
+ <tschwinge> $PWD ;-)
+ <braunr> ah
+ <braunr> it seems a bit silly to me to generate cgi scripts :/
+ <braunr> i don't care much actually, we won't have virtual servers
+ <braunr> so anywhere is fine
+ <tschwinge> What does the +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch Apache option mean?
+ <braunr> apache will normally not follow symlink
+ <braunr> unless the owner of the symlink is the same as the target's
+ <braunr> (with this option)
+ <tschwinge> That's enabled for CGI scripts. So would it work to have a
+ symlink /usr/lib/cgi-bin/hurd-web.cgi -> ~hurd-web/hurd-web.cgi?
+ <braunr> the traditional way to access cgi scripts is to explicitely refer
+ to them as http://server/cgi-bin/script
+ <braunr> using *.cgi may allow too open access to cgis
+ <braunr> (although normally, the userdir conf should disable them)
+ <braunr> hm not sure it does
+ <braunr> so put it in /usr/lib/cgi-bin/
+ <tschwinge> So the hurd-web ikiwiki instance just needs to be configured
+ accordingly with the URL where the CGI script will be found, and then it
+ will render the pages accordingly.
+ <tschwinge> OK.
+ <braunr> and just named hurd-web
+
+
+## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-02-10
+
+ <tschwinge> http://darnassus.sceen.net/~hurd-web/
+ <tschwinge> Have at it!
+ <tschwinge> braunr: ^
+ <braunr> :)
+ <braunr> great
+ <tschwinge> And push to/pull from darnassus:~hurd-web/hurd-web.git for Git
+ access.
+ <tschwinge> Will update the web pages tomorrow, and all that.
+ <tschwinge> braunr: And also install gitweb on darnassus, so one can view
+ diffs of the wiki pages, etc. OK?
+ <braunr> tschwinge: there are still links towards bddebian
+ <braunr> history for example
+ <braunr> just fyi, we can look at this tomorrow
+ <tschwinge> braunr: Yes, that'S what I need gitweb for.
+ <tschwinge> braunr: gitweb installed, hurd-web URLs fixed (s%bddebian%darnassus), also some more ikiwiki-related Perl pacakges installed (openID login, for example).
diff --git a/source_repositories/glibc.mdwn b/source_repositories/glibc.mdwn
index d9a470a..3935da0 100644
--- a/source_repositories/glibc.mdwn
+++ b/source_repositories/glibc.mdwn
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2012, 2013 Free Software Foundation,
+Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
@@ -28,7 +29,7 @@ Debian glibc is based on EGLIBC 2.13 and the Savannah hurd/glibc.git one is
tracking sourceware master.
The Savannah hurd/glibc.git one does not/not yet include
-[[libpthread|open_issues/libpthread]], [[open_issue/packaging_libpthread]].
+[[libpthread|open_issues/libpthread]], [[open_issues/packaging_libpthread]].
# Usage