path: root/community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_for_the_hurd.mdwn

Niches for the Hurd
===================

In the bug-hud mailinglist we did a search for niches where the Hurd is *the biggest 
fish in the pond*. 

This search was segmented into four distinct phases, three of them major: 

- Brainstorm
- Reality check: can already do vs. could be used for
- Turn ideas into applications
- Find a compromise -> About which niches should we talk in the wiki?


Brainstorm
----------

"Which niches could there be for the Hurd?"

### Basic Results

The result is a mix of target groups, 
nice features and options of the Hurd, reasons for running a Hurd and areas where 
the Hurd offers advantages: 

#### Nice features and options the Hurd offers

- Give back power to users: arbitrary mounts, subhurds 
- Nice features: dpkg -iO ftp://foo/bar/*.deb
- Easier access to low-level functions
- Advanced lightweight virtualization
- operating system study purposes as its done with minix
- The possibility to create more efficient and powerful desktop environments
- Having a _complete_ GNU System
- All-in-one out-of-the-box distro running a webserver for crash-proof operation. 


#### Target groups and strong environments

- Tinkerers who like its design.
- multicore-systems


### The keyphrases in more detail or with additional ideas

#### Give back power to users: arbitrary mounts, subhurds

Simpler virtual computing environments - no need to setup XEN, everyone can 
just open up his/her computer for someone else by creating a new user account, 
and the other one can login and easily adapt the system for his/her own needs. 
If most systems just differ by the translators setup on them, people could 
even transfer their whole environment from one computer to another one without 
needing root access or more root interaction than creating a new user account. 
"I want my tools" -> "no problem, just setup your translators". 

Also it would be possible to just open an account for stuff like joining the 
"World Community Grid" allowing for easier sharing of CPU time. 


#### Easier access to low-level functions

*"One important use is for very technical people, who don't always go with
standard solutions, but rather use new approaches to best solve their
problems, and will often find traditional kernels too limiting."*

*"Another interesting aspect is application development: With the easily
customized/extended system functionality, and the ability to contain
such customizations in subenvironments, I believe that Hurd offers a
good platform for much more efficient development of complex
applications. Application developers can just introduce the desired
mechanisms on a very low level, instead of building around existing
abstractions. The extensible filesystem in particular seems extremely
helpful as a powerful, intuitive and transparent communication
mechanism, which allows creating truly modular applications."*


#### Advanced lightweight virtualization

*"There is also the whole area I called "advanced lightweight
virtualization" (see
http://tri-ceps.blogspot.com/2007/10/advanced-lightweight-virtualization.html
), i.e. the ability to create various kinds of interesting
subenvironments. Many use cases are covered by much bigger fish; but the
flexibility we offer here could still be interesting: I think the middle
grounds we cover between directly running applications, and full
isolation through containers or VMs, are quite unique. This could
simplify management of demanding applications for example, by partially
isolating them from other applications and the main system, and thus
reducing incompatibilities. Creating lightweight software appliances
sounds like an interesting option.*"

#### The possibility to create more efficient and powerful desktop environments

*"While I believe this can be applied to any kind of applications, I'm
personally most interested in more efficient and powerful desktop
environments -- these considerations are in fact what got me seriously
interested in the Hurd.

Even more specifically, I've done most considerations (though by far not
all) on modular web browsing environments. Those interested can read up
some of my thoughts on this:

   
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=20080909073154.GB821%40alien.local

(Just skip the text mode browsing stuff -- the relevant part is the long
monologue at the end... I really should put these ideas into my blog.)"*



#### Nice features

Another example of features which would be easily possible with the Hurd: 

* transparent ftp (already possible!):
	- settrans -c ftp: /hurd/hostmux /hurd/ftpfs /
	- ls ftp://ftp.gnu.org/
	- # -> list the files on the FTP server.  


* media-player translator:
 	- settrans play /hurd/mediaplayer_play
	- cp song1.ogg song2.ogg play
	- # -> files get buffered and played.

or even: 

* cp ftp://foo/bar/ogg play

that's KDEs fabled network transparency on the filesystem / shell level. 


Reality check
-------------

Check which of the ideas can already be done easily with the Hurd in its current 
state, which ones are a bit more complex but already possible, which ones need a bit 
of coding (could be accomplished in a few months judging from the current speed of 
development), which ones need a lot of work (or fundamental changes) and which ones 
aren't possible. 

### Already possible and easy

- Sample translators: 
	* hello world. 
	* transparently bind FTP into the filesystem
 	* hostmux + ftpfs -> connect to FTP automatically via asking for a dir named after the hostname -> fully transparent FTP filesystem: "touch ftp: ; settrans ftp: /hurd/hostmux /hurd/ftpfs / "
	* bind any filesystem at any place in the directory tree (you have access to) without needing to be root. 
	* elegantly mount iso images and similar as unprivileged user. 

- Other useful stuff: 
	* Install deb-packages from an ftp server via 'dpkg -iO ftp://foo/bar/*.deb'
	* remount a filesystem readonly as regular user: fsysopts /foo -r
	* give a process additional group and user permissions at runtime:  
	  $ groups  
	  root  
	  $ ps -L # gives me the PID of my login bash -> bashPID  
	  ...  
	  $ addauth -p bashPID -g mail  
	  $ groups  
	  root mail  

- Having a complete GNU System (but not yet on every hardware, and only about half the software Debian offers has been ported). 

### Already possible but complex or underdocumented

- Easier access to low-level functions via translators. 

- Operating system study purposes as it's done with minix. 

- Tinkering for fun - need documentation about the fun things which can be done. 

### Need a few months of coding

- A filesystem-based package manager. 

- subhurds for regular users
	* A framework for confining individual applications is 
	  really just one possible use case of the hurdish 
	  subenvironments. Writing the tools necessary for that 
	  should be quite doable in a few months. It's probably 
	  not really much coding -- most of the work would be 
	  figuring out how it should be set up exactly. 
	* subusers
	* "subdo":  
	  # Example: Let a virus run free, but any effect vanishes  
	  # once the subhurd closes.  
	  $ subdo --no-lasting-changes ./virus

- Running parts of the Hurd on different computers, maybe even with shared servers on 
dedicated hardware (Cloud Computing when the servers can be made to migrate from 
between computers). Maybe this should be placed in "need a lot of coding". 

- subhurds for quickly adapting the whole system without bothering others. 

- Define your personal environment via translators, so you can easily take it with 
you (translators written in scripting laguages can make this easier - they could 
also for example be taken to each computer on USB stick). 

- A more powerful alternative to FUSE filesystems: While FUSE is limited to standard
filesystem semantics, while Hurd translators can implement whatever they
want.
It is possible to change the behaviour in any aspect, including the way
file name lookup works. Admittedly the only specific use case I know is
the possibility to implement namespace-based translator selection with a
set of normal translators, without any changes to the Hurd itself.
It is also possible to extend the filesystem interfaces, adding new RPCs
and options as needed. This allows using the filesystem for
communication, yet implementing domain-specific interfaces where
standard filesystems are too unefficient or cumbersome. A sound server
would be one possible use case. 

- Namespace based translator selection (if you for example want to quickly check the 
contents of an iso image, just look at them via 'ls image.iso,,iso9660fs'). 

### Need a lot of coding or fundamental changes

- Effective resource management (For example via Viengoos on which Neal Walfield is 
working). The idea is that we could make a virtue out of necessity: Once we have a 
proper resource management framework, we should be able not only to catch up with 
traditional systems in this reagard, but in fact surpass them.

- The possibility to create more efficient and powerful desktop environments. 

- Multicore systems (need to fixup Mach for SMP)

- Currently to offer CPU time to some project (like the World Community Grid), it is 
necessary to install a program from them, and they can then do only what that proram 
allows them to - which leads to reinventing a processing environment instead of just 
using the existing OS. 
With the Hurd people could just create a user for them, give that user specific 
permissions (like "you're always lowest priority"), add the public ssh keys of 
the project they want to donate CPU cycles to, and the project could just turn 
the computer into the environment it needs for the specific computation, 
without compromising the main system in any way (needs better resource management).

- A shared MMORPG game world consisting simply of files for levels and person 
descriptions with access rights. All synchronizing is done on the translator 
level. Programs only have to display the given files and quickly update the 
state of their own files, so the programs stay very easy. The translator could 
notify the program when something changes.



### Unfeasible ideas



Applications
------------

A minor phase, which will surely be interleaved with the others: Making the ideas 
tangible to turn them into ways how people can use the Hurd. 

*"Hey, look, this is the Hurd. You can use it like this to do that which you can't do 
as well/easily/elegantly in any other way."*


### Applications for private use

### Applications for companies

### How an application should be presented so people can easily test and digest it

We need stuff which gets people to say "hey that's cool!"

And it must be readily available. 
If I have to search for arcane command line parameters before I can use it, 
it's too hard. 

From what I see, each direct cool application must be about as simple as 

$ qemu hurd-is-cool.img  
$ login root  
$ settrans cool /hurd/cool  
$ ls cool

One main focus in this example is: No command line parameters but the ones we 
really need. No "-a", if the example is also cool without it. 
No "--console" if it works otherwise. 

Especially no *"qemu --cd livecd --hda hurd.img ..."* - that one is great for 
people who already know qemu or want to learn it, but the goal here isn't to teach people 
better usage of qemu, but to show them that the Hurd is cool, and only that. 

All that interesting advanced stuff just gets newcomers confused. 

The translator concept in itself is enough news to faze a mind - anything else 
can easily be too much. 

If the application isn't as simple as the example above, then the best step 
would be to see if we can make it as simple - if that involves writing trivial 
scripts than be it so. They are trivial only to those who already understand 
the underlying concepts. 

And now enough with rambling :) 

The Hurd is cool, and the complex to use applications are cool, too. 
But they are hard to present in a way newcomers easily understand.


Compromise
----------

For each niche: 

- What do we have to do to conquer the niche? 
- How many additional programmers can the Hurd get in this niche? 
- How does choosing this niche limit the flexibility of further development (for example due to the goals of the people who join up)? 
- Can we easily move on to conquering the next niche once we got this one? 
- What should the Hurd accomplish on the long term (long term goals)? Which possible niches help that? 

Each participant: 

- Give your personal priorities to the niches: 
	* Must -> all of these of all developers must be included; 
	  remember that at most 3 to 4 ideas can be conveyed in any text. 
	* Should -> The number of shoulds can be used for ranking and similar.

("must", because in a community people can do what they perceive as important, and 
telling someone to stop what he's doing is no option (in my opinion))


Things to do
------------

todo-item -> niches for which it is useful. 

### Easy

- Port debian packages to the Hurd -> mainly tinkerers, but also any other niche.