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-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014 Free Software Foundation,
-Inc."]]
-
-[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
-id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
-document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
-any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
-Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts.  A copy of the license
-is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
-License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
-
-[[!tag open_issue_glibc open_issue_hurd]]
-
-[[!toc]]
-
-
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, June (?) 2010
-
-    <pochu> is there a way (POSIX or Hurdish) to get the corresponding file
-      name for a fd or a hurd port?
-    <marcusb> there is a way
-    <pochu> marcusb: which one would that be?
-    <marcusb> I forgot
-    <marcusb> there is an implementation in libc
-    <marcusb> realpath has a similar job
-    <marcusb> but that's not what I mean
-    <marcusb> pochu: maybe I am misremembering.  But it was something where you
-      keep looking up .. and list that directory, looking for the node with the
-      ID of the node you had .. for
-    <marcusb> maybe it works only for directories
-    <marcusb> yeah
-    <marcusb> pochu: check the getcwd() implementation of libc
-    <marcusb> sysdeps/mach/hurd/getcwd.c
-    <marcusb> _hurd_canonicalize_directory_name_internal 
-    * pochu looks
-    <pochu> marcusb: interesting
-    <pochu> though that is for dirs, and doesn't seem to be extensible to
-      files, as you cannot lookup for ".." under a file
-    <marcusb> right
-    <pochu> oh you already said that :)
-    <marcusb> actually, I am not sure that's correct
-    <marcusb> it's probably correct, but there is no reason why looking .. up
-      on a file couldn't return the directory it's contianed in
-    <pochu> I don't know the interfaces or the Hurd internals very well yet,
-      but it would look strange to me if you could do that
-    <marcusb> the hurd is strange
-    <pochu> it sounds like if you could `ls getcwd.c/..` to get
-      sysdeps/mach/hurd/ :-)
-    <marcusb> yep
-    <pochu> ok. interesting
-    <marcusb> you wouldn't find "ls foo.zip/.." very strange, wouldn't you?
-    <pochu> I guess not if `ls foo.zip` listed the contents of foo.zip
-    <marcusb> there you go
-    <marcusb> or the other way round: would you be surprised if "cat somedir"
-      would work?
-    <pochu> I think so. if it did, what would it do?
-    <marcusb> originally, cat dir would list the directory content!
-    <marcusb> in the old unix times
-    <pochu> I was surprised the first time I typed `vi somedir` by accident
-    <marcusb> and some early BSDs 
-    * pochu feels young :-)
-    <marcusb> he don't worry, I didn't see those times either
-    <marcusb> technically, files and directories are implemented in the same
-      way in the hurd, they both are objects implementing the fs.defs interface
-    <marcusb> which combines file and directory operations
-    <marcusb> of course, files and directories implement those functions
-      differently
-    <antrik> marcusb: do you know why this behavior (cat on directories) was
-      changed?
-
-
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-03-07
-
-    * pinotree ponders about sending as RFC his patch for /proc/$pid/maps
-    <tschwinge> Including a scheme for providing the names of mapped files?
-      ;-D
-    <braunr> that would be really great indeed
-    <tschwinge> I have not yet researched how Linux does this.  Perhaps store
-      the filename used for first opening a file as a string somewhere?
-    <pinotree> tschwinge: eh, indeed that's lacking in my patch
-    <braunr> i'm not sure we should aim at doing it the same way
-    <youpi> I was wondering about having interfaces for naming tasks, threads,
-      objects
-    <youpi> that'd be useful for debugging in general
-    <braunr> yes
-    <braunr> i don't think we need to take namespaces into account
-    <braunr> a simple name or path should be quite enough
-    <tschwinge> Agreed.  "Just something!"
-    <tschwinge> So, a Java toString() method for ports.
-    <tschwinge> ;-)
-    <braunr> yes
-    <tschwinge> Oh, and could this also work recursively?  The ext2fs instance
-      on /home asks its parent fs about its own path -- can it do that?  (And
-      then cache that, most likely?)  Would one get rooted filesnames that way?
-    <braunr> i really don't think we should link it to the VFS
-    <braunr> it should merely be a name for debugging
-    <youpi> yep, same for me
-    <youpi> I'd say it's the linker's task of just setting a sane name
-    <braunr> first, keeping it isolated prevents increasing complexity
-    <braunr> next, it doesn't reduce performance
-    <tschwinge> youpi: Linker?
-    <tschwinge> braunr: Ack.
-    <braunr> yes, ld is the one creating the mappings
-    <youpi> tschwinge: the one that loads libraries
-    <tschwinge> Ah, for /proc/*/maps, right.  I've been thinking more globally.
-
-
-## task_get_name, task_set_name RPCs
-
-The following needs to be updated now that
-[[microkernel/mach/gnumach/interface/task_set_name]] has been implemented.
-
-[[!message-id "518AA5B0.6030409@verizon.net"]]
-
-
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-05-10
-
-    <youpi> tschwinge's suggestion to put names on ports instead of tasks would
-      be useful too
-    <braunr> do you get task ports as easily as you get tasks in kdb ?
-    <youpi> there is task->itk_self & such
-    <youpi> or itk_space
-    <youpi> I don't remember which one is used by userspace
-    <braunr> i mean
-    <braunr> when you use the debugger, can you easily find its ports ?
-    <braunr> the task ports i mean
-    <braunr> or thread ports or whatever
-    <youpi> once you have a task, it's a matter of getting the itk_self port
-    <youpi> s/port/field member/
-    <braunr> so the debugger provides you with the addresses of the structs
-    <braunr> right ?
-    <youpi> yes, that's what we have already
-    <braunr> then ok
-    <braunr> bddebian: do that :p
-    <braunr> hehe
-    <youpi> see show all thread
-    <braunr> (haven't used kdb in a long time)
-    <bddebian> So, adding a name to ports like I did with tasks?
-    <braunr> remove what you did for tasks
-    <braunr> move it to ports
-    <braunr> it's very similar
-    <braunr> but hm
-    <braunr> i'm not sure where the RPC would be
-    <braunr> this RPC would exist for *all* ports
-    <braunr> or only for kernel objects if added to gnumach.defs
-    <youpi> it's just about moving the char array field to another structure
-    <youpi> and plugging that
-    <bddebian> But mach_task_self is a syscal, it looks like itk_self is just a
-      pointer to an ipc_port ?
-    <braunr> so ?
-    <braunr> you take that pointer and you get the port
-    <braunr> just like vm_map gets a struct vm_map from a task
-    <bddebian> So I am just adding ipc_port_name to the ipc_port struct in this
-      case?
-    <braunr> yes
-    <braunr> actually
-    <braunr> don't do anything just yet
-    <braunr> we need to sort a few details out first
-    <braunr> see bug-hurd
-
-
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2013-12-05
-
-    <teythoon> braunr: no more room for vm_map_find_entry in 80220a40
-    <teythoon> 80220a40 <- is that a task ?
-    <braunr> or a vm_map, not sure
-    <braunr> probably a vm_map
-    <teythoon> hm
-    <teythoon> let's fix this kind of reporting
-    <braunr> :)
-    <teythoon> let one process register for kernel log messages
-    <teythoon> make a rich interface, say klog_thread and friends
-    <teythoon> a userspace process gets the port name, looks it up in proc,
-      logs nicely to syslog
-    <teythoon> if noone registered for this notifications, fall back to the old
-      reporting
-    <braunr> i tend to think using internal names is probably better
-    <teythoon> how would i use them to see wich process caused the issue ?
-    <braunr> you give the name of the task
-    <braunr> (which means tasks have names, yes)
-    <teythoon> ok
-    <braunr> the reason is that reporting is often used for debugging
-    <braunr> and debugging usually means there is a bug
-    <braunr> if the bug prevents from reporting, it's not very useful
-    <braunr> and we're talking about the kernel here, the low level stuff
-    <teythoon> incidentally, i got myself a stuck process
-    <teythoon> ah, got it killed
-    <teythoon> braunr: so you propose to add a task rpc to set a name ?
-    <braunr> i don't want to push such things
-    <braunr> which is why this hasn't been done until now
-    <braunr> but that's what i'd do in x15, yes
-    <teythoon> y not ?
-    <braunr> and instead of a process registered to gather kernel messages, i'd
-      use a dmesg-like interface, where the kernel manages its message buffer
-      itself
-    <braunr> i didn't feel the need to
-    <braunr> the tools i've had until now were sufficient
-    <braunr> don't forget you still need to fix mtab :p
-    <braunr> or is it done ?
-    <teythoon> i sometimes see tasks deallocating invalid ports
-    <teythoon> no
-    <teythoon> there is an un-acked patche series on the list
-    <braunr> ok
-    <teythoon> so, i want to identify which process caused it
-    <teythoon> is that possible right now ?
-    <braunr> not easily, no
-    <teythoon> so that's a valid use case
-    <braunr> it is
-    <teythoon> good
-    <teythoon> :)
-    <teythoon> so proc would register a string describing each task and mach
-      would use this for printing nicer messages ?
-    <braunr> for example, yes
-    <braunr> one problem with that approach is that it doesn't fit well with
-      subhurds
-    <teythoon> *bingbingbing
-    <braunr> but i personally wouldn't care much, they're kernel messages
-    <braunr> in the future, we could make mach more a hypervisor, and register
-      names for each domains
-    <teythoon> yet unanswered proposal about hierachical proc servers on the
-      list...
-    <teythoon> that'd also fix subhurds, so that the parents processes won't
-      appear in the subhurd
-    <teythoon> making it sandboxier
-    <teythoon> and killall5 couldn't slaughter the host system if the subhurd
-      shuts down with sysvinit
-
-
-## IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2014-01-20
-
-    <teythoon> i wonder if it would not be best to add a description to mach
-      tasks
-    <braunr> i think it would
-    <teythoon> to aid fixing these kind of issues
-    <braunr> in x15, i actually add descriptions (names) to all kernel objects
-    <teythoon> that's probably a good idea, yes
-    <braunr> well, not all, but many
-
-
-## IRC, OFTC, #debian-hurd, 2014-02-05
-
-    <teythoon> youpi: about that patch implementing task_set_name, may i merge
-      the amended version ?
-    <youpi> yes
-
-
-# IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-07-13
-
-A related issue:
-
-    <braunr> rbraun@nordrassil:~$ vminfo $$ | wc -l
-    <braunr> 1039
-    <braunr> any idea why a shell would consume more than 1039 map entries ?
-    <braunr> (well, not more actually)
-    <braunr> even the kernel and ext2fs have around 100
-    <braunr> (the kernel has actually only 23, which is very good and expected)
-    <tschwinge> braunr: I agree that having some sort of debugging information
-      for memory objects et al. would be quite hand.  To see where they're
-      coming from, etc.
-    <braunr> tschwinge: this would require naming objects at the mach level
-    <braunr> e.g. when creating an object
-    <braunr> giving it the path of a file for example
-    <tschwinge> braunr: I have recently seen something (due to youpi fixing a
-      bug) that bash is doing its own memory management.  Perhaps all these are
-      such regions?
-    <tschwinge> braunr: For example, yes.
-    <braunr> what ?
-    <braunr> ?!
-    <tschwinge> braunr:
-      http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-bash/2011-04/msg00097.html
-    <braunr> i see
-
-Also see email thread starting at [[!message-id
-"20110714082216.GA8335@sceen.net"]].
-
-Justus: Once [[!message-id desc="these patches"
-"1375178364-19917-4-git-send-email-4winter@informatik.uni-hamburg.de"]] are
-merged, there will be a way to map from ports to file names, at least for
-libdiskfs and libnetfs, one would only have to make this information available
-somehow.