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+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
+
+[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
+id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
+document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
+any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
+Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
+is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
+License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
+
+There are the Savannah trackers. Nobody really likes them.
+
+There is a proposal to add/move to <http://debbugs.gnu.org/>. It can be
+operated by email, Debian people (developers and users) already know how to use
+it.
+
+There are the [[Open_Issues]] pages. This is basically just free-form text
+enriched by some tags for grouping, editable via the web and through Git
+commit. [[tschwinge]] added this to the set, and/but mostly is the sole user
+of it, even though casually there are a few other people contributing, and
+surely these pages do show up in web searches. A more traditional system (like
+the Savannah trackers or the new debbugs) do have their advantages, too, so
+perhaps there's a niche for both these and the [[Open_Issues]].
+
+IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-31:
+
+ <tschwinge> So. Savannah trackers vs. Open Issues vs. debbugs. Any input?
+ <youpi> I like *both* open issues and debbugs
+ <youpi> open issues is good for exposing things that people may encounter
+ in other situations
+ <youpi> while debbugs is useful to actually work on a bug
+ <tschwinge> youpi: The advantage of debbugs being the email interface and
+ the well-known procedure, or something else?
+ <youpi> email interface, which nicely flows into a mailing list
+ <youpi> the savannah bug updates suffer from the additional layout
+ <tschwinge> How does one decide what to put in a debbug and what in an Open
+ Issue page?
+ <youpi> I'd say it's not exclusive at all
+ <youpi> like, a bug on a specific case can start as debbug, and as we
+ discover it's more general and will not be fixed immediately, get an open
+ issue page
+ <youpi> and conversely, when we know some shortcoming, start with an open
+ issue, and if some bugs are submitted which are actually due to it,
+ cross-link
+ <tschwinge> OK.
+ <youpi> (some general short coming I mean, like SIGINFO)
+ <tschwinge> And we would keep the current stuff in the trackers, and let
+ these ``get empty'' gradually (it'll be years...) ;-) or migrate the
+ remaining issues?
+ <tschwinge> What we can do is inhibiting the creation of new issues in the
+ trackers.
+ <youpi> I'd say move
+ <youpi> else they will be forgotten
+ <tschwinge> Hrm.
+ <antrik> actually, I considered creating a track-like plugin for ikiwiki,
+ as both the popularity of trac and the usefulness of open_issues show
+ that something wiki-like is actually more useful than a rigid traditional
+ bugtracker. but I'm not really willing to do the work, which is why I
+ didn't propose it before :-)
+ <antrik> err... trac-like
+ <youpi> yes, the wiki part is really useful to keep a good summary of the
+ issue
+ <tschwinge> antrik: Same for me. I always hoped that someone would do
+ it... :-)
+ <antrik> hehe
+ <tschwinge> antrik: But, as you surely know, this email parsing business is
+ just too ugly to do realiable, etc.
+ <antrik> youpi: my point is that adding a few additional bits (like a
+ comfortable tagging functionality, and some mail interface) could turn
+ into a full-blown tracker unifying the advantages of both... but as I
+ said, I'm not really willing to do the work :-)
+ <youpi> additional to open_issue you mean?
+ <youpi> yes, but like you say :)
+ <antrik> tschwinge: hm... seems to work well enough it debbugs
+ <youpi> debbugs just piles things
+ <youpi> and has a few commands
+ <youpi> you'd still need the web interface to edit the wiki part for
+ instance
+ <antrik> of course. that wouldn't change at all
+ <antrik> (except for adding a tagging GUI perhaps)
+ <antrik> (debbugs of course is not the only mail-operable bugtracking
+ system... there are a number of others -- and I heard rumors even
+ bugzilla grew a mail interface now...)
+ <youpi> antrik: a .mdwn diff should however be sent to the bug for
+ information
+ <youpi> atm, what happens sometimes is somebody saying something here on
+ #hurd, tschwinge turning that into an open_issue, and it does not show up
+ on the mailing list
+ <tschwinge> debbugs surely has the advantage that it is available (nearly)
+ right now.
+ <mattl> RT (request tracker) and ikiwiki play quite nicely together.
+ <tschwinge> mattl: You'Re using that at GNU/FSF/somewhere, right?
+ <mattl> you can close tickets from the wiki, and RT has a good command line
+ interface, email interface and web interface.
+ <mattl> tschwinge: yeah, we use RT and ikiwiki.
+ <mattl> RT for all FSF communications, and ikiwiki for internal organising.
+ <mattl> RT is not the easiest thing to set up, but works pretty well once
+ it's running.