1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
|
[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]]
[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable
id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or
any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant
Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license
is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation
License|/fdl]]."]]"""]]
<!--
[[!meta date="2011-07-19 23:42 UTC"]]
-->
A quarter of the Hurd, Q2 of 2011, PS: *GNU Hurd Truths and Myths*.
[[!if test="included()" then="""[[!toggle id=full_news
text="Details."]][[!toggleable id=full_news text="[[!paste id=full_news]]"]]"""
else="
[[!paste id=full_news]]"]]
[[!cut id="full_news" text="""
After our last *[[Quarter of the Hurd|news/2011-q2]]* has been picked
up by a bunch of news sites, blogs, and so on, discussions have been
running all over the net *([lwn][], [reddit1][], [reddit2][],
[h-online][], [slashdot][], [golem1][], [golem2][],
[ih][innocenthacker], [netzwelt][], [tunnelbau][],
[pro-linux][], [srini][], [schmehl][], …)*. We are happy to see that there is
considerable interest in the Hurd; but we also saw some
misunderstandings, false rumors, and outdated information floating
around. Thus we will try to clarify the situation regarding some of
the more common misunderstandings.
[reddit1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/j2ztr/rms_mlayout_finally_shout_its_alive_at_gnuhurd_thanks/
[lwn]: http://lwn.net/Articles/451699/
[h-online]: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Hurd-Progresses-Debian-GNU-Hurd-by-end-o
[reddit2]: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ipxxt/debian_now_has_concrete_plans_to_bring_gnu_hurd/
[golem1]: http://www.golem.de/1107/84947.html
[golem2]: http://www.golem.de/1108/85430.html
[slashdot]: http://news.slasd.h.ot.org/story/11/07/14/2141229/watch-out-linux-gnu-hurd-coming
[schmehl]: http://blog.schmehl.info/2011/07/15#hurd-not-default
[innocenthacker]: http://www.innocenthacker.com/2011/07/debian-7-might-come-in-gnu-hurd-version.html
[netzwelt]: http://www.netzwelt.de/news/87551-debian-7-0-wheezy-erste-plaene-hurd-statt-linux-kernel.html
[tunnelbau]: http://blog.operation-tunnelbau.de/archives/66-Hurd-kommt-zusammen-mit-Duke-Nukem-Forever.-Fast..html
[pro-linux]: http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/17261/gnu-hurd-will-offiziell-in-naechste-debian-version.html
[srini]: http://srinicame.blogspot.com/2011/07/debian-gnuhurd-trial-installation.html
* **Debian GNU Hurd works to become a port in Debian**:
We plan to get into the next Debian release (Wheezy)
as an additional port alongside GNU/Linux and GNU/kFreeBSD --
but we don't know yet whether we will make it.
There is still substantial work necessary to indeed become a release candidate.
If you
want to help, please see our [[contributing]] page and the *to do*
list maintained on <http://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/Hurd>. We'd
be happy to have you on board!
* **Java support for GNU/Hurd is nearby**: Jérémie Koenig is working
on making a versatile Java programming environment available on
the GNU/Hurd as part of his
[[Google Summer of Code project|user/jkoenig/java]], focusing on
OpenJDK 7 --
[partially working packages](http://jk.fr.eu.org/debian/experimental/)
are already available.
He also implemented GCJ/ECJ support,
though this is not yet fully functional either.
<!-- Is this correct? What is the actual status? -->
* **GNU/Hurd supports X.Org, though a bit unstable**:
X support has been present for ages
(anyone remember
[1998's XFree86](http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/hurd/hurd_video.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup)?);
and X.Org also has been supported for a long time.
(It's even mentioned in the
[X.Org 7.2 release announcement](http://www.x.org/wiki/Other/Press/X11R72Released?action=show&redirect=PressReleases%2FX11R72Released).)
It is true though that many modern drivers do not work anymore,
as they require DRM (Direct Rendering Manager) support now;
so often only VESA is available.
Also, X on the Hurd is [[somewhat_unstable|hurd/status]].
* **The Hurd has weaker device support than Linux**:
Most of the drivers we use today were imported from Linux 2.0.x.
For network cards,
Linux 2.6.29 drivers are available through [[DDE|hurd/dde]] --
however, this is not fully integrated yet,
so using these drivers needs manual setup for now ([[hurd/dde/guide]]).
Support for other driver types is also possible with DDE,
but it requires some not-trivial work for each additional class of drivers --
so this can take some time to become available.
(An additional benefit provided by DDE is that the device drivers run in userspace --
unlike the old drivers we were using so far,
which are part of the underlying Mach microkernel.)
* **The Hurd has SMP, but needs support for new chipsets**:
Both Mach (the microkernel used by the Hurd),
and the Hurd servers themselves come with SMP support.
However, Mach [[misses drivers for modern SMP chipsets|faq/smp]];
and there are also some SMP-related bugs in the implementation --
so further work is needed
for the Hurd to take advantage of modern multicore processors.
* **Installation can still be challenging**:
Please [[take notice|http://xkcd.com/293/]] of the
[README file](http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/YES_REALLY_README.txt) --
just like with any software in development,
there are some known pitfalls to avoid.
(Or better yet, help to fix :-) )
Alternatively, you can simply use the the
[preinstalled image](http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/debian-hurd.img.tar.gz).
* **GNU Hurd is not the same as GNU/Hurd**:
The GNU project set out in 1983 to create a complete free operating system.
When a distribution such as Debian combines their GNU-based userland
with the GNU kernel (named `GNU Hurd`),
the result is more or less a full GNU system.
However, such third-party distributions are distinct
from what an official complete GNU system release would be;
and thus we often call them `GNU/Hurd`
(similar to `GNU/Linux` or `GNU/kFreeBSD`) for clarity.
* **Performance**:
The [benchmarks conducted by Phoronix](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=debian_gnu_hurd&num=1)
attested very good performance to the Hurd.
Keep in mind though that these benchmarks were almost completely CPU-bound;
so they essentially just confirm that we don't do anything stupid
regarding CPU initialisations. (Cache setup etc.)
The results would be different for benchmarks
that actually exercise the operating system functionality more.
The fact that the tests were performed in a virtualised environment,
might also have helped the results,
for example by mitigating the effects of our unoptimized I/O paths --
which are currently the major bottleneck in most situations.
Nevertheless, these results are a hint
that the extra IPC required in microkernel systems
[doesn't necessarily hamper performance](http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.16)
quite as much as often believed.
We are glad to see such solid benchmarks
help dispel some of the myths around the Hurd :-)
* **Given the available manpower, the progress is very good**:
Over the past decade,
there were seldom more than half a dozen developers at any given time
hacking on the Hurd, in their spare time --
not hundreds of paid developers like Linux has.
Considering this, the progress made is quite encouraging;
with the system being [[pretty usable|hurd/status]] for many day-to-day tasks now.
It is generally understood that the ambitious architecture of the Hurd
required a lot of effort to get it working at all --
but the recent progress shows that once the foundations are in place,
the Hurd design indeed allows the developers to be very productive.
To see the progress over the last few years, you can have a look at our
[[news_archive|news]]. If you’ve grown interested, you can find
various ways to contribute on the [[contributing]] page. We’d be happy
to see you join in because every single hand makes a big difference in the Hurd!
"""]]
<!--
slashdot
and phoronix did some [performance tests of the Hurd][phorperf],
[phorperf]: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=debian_gnu_hurd&num=1
---
IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-24:
< ArneBab> hurd related: I now think you were right, antrik: the hurd
rumors don't belong into the news (tschwinge)
< antrik> ArneBab: you mean the postscriptum as a whole, or just the wild
rumours part?...
< ArneBab> the whole PS
< ArneBab> it should rather go into a blog post
< ArneBab> (in the wiki)
< antrik> hm... I don't think I agree
< ArneBab> why?
< antrik> apparently there is a number of people following the news now,
and apparently many of them misread some statements... it makes sense to
use the same channel for clarifying them I'd say
< ArneBab> hm, ok
< ArneBab> how would you select the part to include?
< antrik> roughly speaking, I'd include everything that actually relates to
the previous news that were misunderstood
< antrik> and drop all unrelated speculations that popped up
< antrik> BTW, it *might* be useful perhaps to actually update the original
news posting with the clarifications?...
< ArneBab> we can't do that without breaking some peoples RSS feeds
< antrik> note that there is another aspect to consider: the fact that
several news sites picked it up is indeed genuine news by itself...
< ArneBab> that's right, yes
< antrik> will it really break anything? from what I heard so far it just
means they will see the posting as new again, which would actually make
sense in this case...
< antrik> but I don't insist if you think it's too risky :-)
< antrik> just an idea
-->
|
