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| -rw-r--r-- | contributing/web_pages/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn | 131 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | hurd/dde/guide.mdwn | 2 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn | 200 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | open_issues/code_analysis.mdwn | 4 |
4 files changed, 203 insertions, 134 deletions
diff --git a/contributing/web_pages/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn b/contributing/web_pages/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 8931cbb8..00000000 --- a/contributing/web_pages/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,131 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -<!-- -[[!meta date="2011-07-19 23:42 UTC"]] ---> - -A quarter of the Hurd, Q2 of 2011, PS: *GNU Hurd Truths and Rumors*. -[[!if test="included()" then="""[[!toggle id=full_news -text="Details."]][[!toggleable id=full_news text="[[!paste id=full_news]]"]]""" -else=" -[[!paste id=full_news]]"]] - -[[!cut id="full_news" text=""" - -After our last *[[Quarter of the Hurd|news/2011-q2]]* has been picked up by a bunch -of news sites, blogs, and so on, discussions have been running all over the -net. While we are happy to see that there obviously is quite some interest in -the GNU Hurd, we also saw some rumors and outdated information flowing around. -In the following, we try to clear the situation up a bit. - - * *Debian wants to replace the Linux kernel with the GNU Hurd*. {X} - **Wrong**. We plan to get into Wheezy as an additional port besides - GNU/Linux and GNU/kFreeBSD -- but we don't know whether we will make it. - It depends on a lot of factors, a lot of work is still to be done. If you - want to help, please see our [[contributing]] page and the *to do* list - maintained on <http://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/Hurd>. - - * *GNU Hurd developers want the Linux kernel to die*. {X} - **Wrong**. All of us are happy users of the Linux kernel, every - day, and GNU/Linux is the free operating system of choice, which - we're using ourselves (unless sitting in front of a GNU/Hurd - system). We work on the Hurd instead of Linux because of the - [[additional capabilities and clean design|advantages]] it - provides. - - * *Java support for GNU/Hurd is in the works*. (./) **True**. Jérémie - Koenig is working on making a versatile Java programming environment - available on the GNU/Hurd as part of his [[Google Summer of Code - project|user/jkoenig/java]], focussing on OpenJDK 7. Also, we already do - have support by the GCJ/ECJ platform, but this is not fully functional, and - Jérémie is improving that, too. - - * *GNU/Hurd has no support for X.org*. {X} **Wrong**. X.Org *does* work, - and has for a long time. (Anyone remember [1998's - XFree86](http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/hurd/hurd_video.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup), - by chance?) It is correct however that not a lot of advanced drivers work, - due to missing DRM (Direct Rendering Manager) support. - -[[tschwinge]] thinks that the following one is a bit questionable... - - * *The GNU/Hurd only runs on legacy hardware*. {X} **Wrong**. The GNU/Hurd - is only tested on a few platforms, but it likely runs on modern processors. - If you want to see if it works for you, just test a - [[hurd/running/Live_CD]]. - -* *Hurd only supports legacy devices:* ½ Partly True: Currently most drivers are from Linux 2.0. For network cards, Linux 2.6+ drivers are available through DDE, though (needs manual setup for now). With a good amount of work, DDE also allows porting other classes of drivers to allow using the drivers from recent Linux releases — and push them into userspace. - -* *The Hurd has no SMP:* <u>✔ **True**</u>: Even though the **Hurd servers support SMP** and **GNU Mach has SMP support**. But the latter [[does_not_yet_have_drivers_for_nowadays_chipsets|faq/smp]], so the Hurd currently can’t take advantage of multiple cores. - -* *Developing a microkernel must be harder than developing a monolithic kernel, because the Hurd took so long:* ✘ **Wrong**: For the last decade, the Hurd had on average 5 hobby developers. That these developers managed to get the Hurd into a state where it actually gets not too far from the Linux kernel in performance — which has about 1000 developers, many of them full time — shows the efficiency of the Hurd’s design. - -* *Installation does not work:* ½ Partly True: Did you read the [[README|http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/YES_REALLY_README.txt]] ([[file|http://xkcd.com/293/]])? Just like any beta piece of software, there are known pitfalls which you could easily avoid (or better, help to fix). You can also simply use the the [[preinstalled image|http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/debian-hurd.img.tar.gz]]. - -* *The system is called GNU/GNU Hurd:* ✘ **Wrong**: The GNU userland (glibc, coreutils, …) and the GNU Hurd together form the GNU system. To avoid being mistaken for GNU/Linux, we normally use the name GNU/Hurd or GNU Hurd. The *correct* name is simply GNU. - -**Test results** - -The results of the test from Phoronix were quite good. We expected that the microkernel design of the Hurd would have a far more severe performance hit. - -Some possible explanations: - -* The tests were mostly CPU bound. -* IPCs [are no more such a problem on recent hardware][ipc]. - -And a non-explanation: - -* The emulation layer should rather make the context switches worse, so it’s likely not at play. - -[ipc]: http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.16 - -"""]] - -<!-- - -slashdot - -and phoronix did some [performance tests of the Hurd][phorperf], -[phorperf]: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=debian_gnu_hurd&num=1 - ---- - -IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-24: - - < ArneBab> hurd related: I now think you were right, antrik: the hurd - rumors don’t belong into the news (tschwinge) - < antrik> ArneBab: you mean the postscriptum as a whole, or just the wild - rumours part?... - < ArneBab> the whole PS - < ArneBab> it should rather go into a blog post - < ArneBab> (in the wiki) - < antrik> hm... I don't think I agree - < ArneBab> why? - < antrik> apparently there is a number of people following the news now, - and apparently many of them misread some statements... it makes sense to - use the same channel for clarifying them I'd say - < ArneBab> hm, ok - < ArneBab> how would you select the part to include? - < antrik> roughly speaking, I'd include everything that actually relates to - the previous news that were misunderstood - < antrik> and drop all unrelated speculations that popped up - < antrik> BTW, it *might* be useful perhaps to actually update the original - news posting with the clarifications?... - < ArneBab> we can’t do that without breaking some peoples RSS feeds - < antrik> note that there is another aspect to consider: the fact that - several news sites picked it up is indeed genuine news by itself... - < ArneBab> that’s right, yes - < antrik> will it really break anything? from what I heard so far it just - means they will see the posting as new again, which would actually make - sense in this case... - < antrik> but I don't insist if you think it's too risky :-) - < antrik> just an idea - ---> diff --git a/hurd/dde/guide.mdwn b/hurd/dde/guide.mdwn index 31671308..a3c08754 100644 --- a/hurd/dde/guide.mdwn +++ b/hurd/dde/guide.mdwn @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@ your Hurd system is already installed and operational. We start by booting into Debian GNU/Linux, -so we can downloading everything we will need for building DDE. +so we can download everything we will need for building DDE. Once there, first mount the Hurd partition (as root): diff --git a/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn b/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e589c885 --- /dev/null +++ b/news/2011-q2-ps.mdwn @@ -0,0 +1,200 @@ +[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] + +[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable +id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this +document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or +any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant +Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license +is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation +License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] + +<!-- +[[!meta date="2011-07-19 23:42 UTC"]] +--> + +A quarter of the Hurd, Q2 of 2011, PS: *GNU Hurd Truths and Myths*. +[[!if test="included()" then="""[[!toggle id=full_news +text="Details."]][[!toggleable id=full_news text="[[!paste id=full_news]]"]]""" +else=" +[[!paste id=full_news]]"]] + +[[!cut id="full_news" text=""" + +After our last *[[Quarter of the Hurd|news/2011-q2]]* has been picked +up by a bunch of news sites, blogs, and so on, discussions have been +running all over the net *([lwn][], [reddit1][], [reddit2][], +[h-online][], [slashdot][], [golem1][], [golem2][], +[ih][innocenthacker], [netzwelt][], [tunnelbau][], +[pro-linux][], [srini][], [schmehl][], …)*. We are happy to see that there is +considerable interest in the Hurd; but we also saw some +misunderstandings, false rumors, and outdated information floating +around. Thus we will try to clarify the situation regarding some of +the more common misunderstandings. + +[reddit1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/j2ztr/rms_mlayout_finally_shout_its_alive_at_gnuhurd_thanks/ +[lwn]: http://lwn.net/Articles/451699/ +[h-online]: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Hurd-Progresses-Debian-GNU-Hurd-by-end-o +[reddit2]: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ipxxt/debian_now_has_concrete_plans_to_bring_gnu_hurd/ +[golem1]: http://www.golem.de/1107/84947.html +[golem2]: http://www.golem.de/1108/85430.html +[slashdot]: http://news.slasd.h.ot.org/story/11/07/14/2141229/watch-out-linux-gnu-hurd-coming +[schmehl]: http://blog.schmehl.info/2011/07/15#hurd-not-default +[innocenthacker]: http://www.innocenthacker.com/2011/07/debian-7-might-come-in-gnu-hurd-version.html +[netzwelt]: http://www.netzwelt.de/news/87551-debian-7-0-wheezy-erste-plaene-hurd-statt-linux-kernel.html +[tunnelbau]: http://blog.operation-tunnelbau.de/archives/66-Hurd-kommt-zusammen-mit-Duke-Nukem-Forever.-Fast..html +[pro-linux]: http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/17261/gnu-hurd-will-offiziell-in-naechste-debian-version.html +[srini]: http://srinicame.blogspot.com/2011/07/debian-gnuhurd-trial-installation.html + + + + * **Debian GNU Hurd works to become a port in Debian**: + We plan to get into the next Debian release (Wheezy) + as an additional port alongside GNU/Linux and GNU/kFreeBSD -- + but we don't know yet whether we will make it. + There is still substantial work necessary to indeed become a release candidate. + If you + want to help, please see our [[contributing]] page and the *to do* + list maintained on <http://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/Hurd>. We'd + be happy to have you on board! + + * **Java support for GNU/Hurd is nearby**: Jérémie Koenig is working + on making a versatile Java programming environment available on + the GNU/Hurd as part of his + [[Google Summer of Code project|user/jkoenig/java]], focusing on + OpenJDK 7 -- + [partially working packages](http://jk.fr.eu.org/debian/experimental/) + are already available. + He also implemented GCJ/ECJ support, + though this is not yet fully functional either. + <!-- Is this correct? What is the actual status? --> + + * **GNU/Hurd supports X.Org, though a bit unstable**: + X support has been present for ages + (anyone remember + [1998's XFree86](http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/hurd/hurd_video.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup)?); + and X.Org also has been supported for a long time. + (It's even mentioned in the + [X.Org 7.2 release announcement](http://www.x.org/wiki/Other/Press/X11R72Released?action=show&redirect=PressReleases%2FX11R72Released).) + It is true though that many modern drivers do not work anymore, + as they require DRM (Direct Rendering Manager) support now; + so often only VESA is available. + Also, X on the Hurd is [[somewhat_unstable|hurd/status]]. + + * **The Hurd has weaker device support than Linux**: + Most of the drivers we use today were imported from Linux 2.0.x. + For network cards, + Linux 2.6.29 drivers are available through [[DDE|hurd/dde]] -- + however, this is not fully integrated yet, + so using these drivers needs manual setup for now ([[hurd/dde/guide]]). + Support for other driver types is also possible with DDE, + but it requires some not-trivial work for each additional class of drivers -- + so this can take some time to become available. + (An additional benefit provided by DDE is that the device drivers run in userspace -- + unlike the old drivers we were using so far, + which are part of the underlying Mach microkernel.) + + * **The Hurd has SMP, but needs support for new chipsets**: + Both Mach (the microkernel used by the Hurd), + and the Hurd servers themselves come with SMP support. + However, Mach [[misses drivers for modern SMP chipsets|faq/smp]]; + and there are also some SMP-related bugs in the implementation -- + so further work is needed + for the Hurd to take advantage of modern multicore processors. + + * **Installation can still be challenging**: + Please [[take notice|http://xkcd.com/293/]] of the + [README file](http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/YES_REALLY_README.txt) -- + just like with any software in development, + there are some known pitfalls to avoid. + (Or better yet, help to fix :-) ) + Alternatively, you can simply use the the + [preinstalled image](http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/debian-hurd.img.tar.gz) in qemu. + + * **GNU Hurd is not the same as GNU/Hurd**: + The GNU project set out in 1983 to create a complete free operating system. + When a distribution such as Debian combines their GNU-based userland + with the GNU kernel (named `GNU Hurd`), + the result is more or less a full GNU system. + However, such third-party distributions are distinct + from what an official complete GNU system release would be; + and thus we often call them `GNU/Hurd` + (similar to `GNU/Linux` or `GNU/kFreeBSD`) for clarity. + + * **Performance**: + The [benchmarks conducted by Phoronix](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=debian_gnu_hurd&num=1) + attested very good performance to the Hurd. + Keep in mind though that these benchmarks were almost completely CPU-bound; + so they essentially just confirm that we don't do anything stupid + regarding CPU initialisations. (Cache setup etc.) + The results would be different for benchmarks + that actually exercise the operating system functionality more. + The fact that the tests were performed in a virtualised environment, + might also have helped the results, + for example by mitigating the effects of our unoptimized I/O paths -- + which are currently the major bottleneck in most situations. + Nevertheless, these results are a hint + that the extra IPC required in microkernel systems + [doesn't necessarily hamper performance](http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.16) + quite as much as often believed. + We are glad to see such solid benchmarks + help dispel some of the myths around the Hurd :-) + + * **Given the available manpower, the progress is very good**: + Over the past decade, + there were seldom more than *half a dozen developers* at any given time + hacking on the Hurd, in their spare time -- + not hundreds of paid developers like Linux has. + Considering this, the progress made is quite encouraging; + with the system being [[pretty usable|hurd/status]] for many day-to-day tasks now. + It is generally understood that the ambitious architecture of the Hurd + required a lot of effort to get it working at all -- + but the recent progress shows that once the foundations are in place, + the Hurd design indeed allows the developers to be very productive. + To see the progress over the last few years, you can have a look at our + [[news_archive|news]]. If you’ve grown interested, you can find + various ways to contribute on the [[contributing]] page. We’d be happy + to see you join in because every single hand makes a big difference in the Hurd! + +"""]] + +<!-- + +slashdot + +and phoronix did some [performance tests of the Hurd][phorperf], +[phorperf]: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=debian_gnu_hurd&num=1 + +--- + +IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-08-24: + + < ArneBab> hurd related: I now think you were right, antrik: the hurd + rumors don't belong into the news (tschwinge) + < antrik> ArneBab: you mean the postscriptum as a whole, or just the wild + rumours part?... + < ArneBab> the whole PS + < ArneBab> it should rather go into a blog post + < ArneBab> (in the wiki) + < antrik> hm... I don't think I agree + < ArneBab> why? + < antrik> apparently there is a number of people following the news now, + and apparently many of them misread some statements... it makes sense to + use the same channel for clarifying them I'd say + < ArneBab> hm, ok + < ArneBab> how would you select the part to include? + < antrik> roughly speaking, I'd include everything that actually relates to + the previous news that were misunderstood + < antrik> and drop all unrelated speculations that popped up + < antrik> BTW, it *might* be useful perhaps to actually update the original + news posting with the clarifications?... + < ArneBab> we can't do that without breaking some peoples RSS feeds + < antrik> note that there is another aspect to consider: the fact that + several news sites picked it up is indeed genuine news by itself... + < ArneBab> that's right, yes + < antrik> will it really break anything? from what I heard so far it just + means they will see the posting as new again, which would actually make + sense in this case... + < antrik> but I don't insist if you think it's too risky :-) + < antrik> just an idea + +--> diff --git a/open_issues/code_analysis.mdwn b/open_issues/code_analysis.mdwn index e8e5ba0e..bb74d958 100644 --- a/open_issues/code_analysis.mdwn +++ b/open_issues/code_analysis.mdwn @@ -105,11 +105,11 @@ There is a [[!FF_project 276]][[!tag bounty]] on some of these tasks. glibc's heap structure. its kinda handy, might help? <vsrinivas> MALLOC_CHECK_ was the envvar you want, sorry. - * Input fuzzying + * Input fuzzing Not a new topic; has been used (and a paper published) for early UNIX tools, I[[I|tschwinge]]RC. * <http://caca.zoy.org/wiki/zzuf> - What about some [[RPC]] fuzzying? + What about some [[RPC]] fuzzing? |