diff options
| author | Thomas Schwinge <thomas@codesourcery.com> | 2012-05-24 23:08:09 +0200 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Thomas Schwinge <thomas@codesourcery.com> | 2012-05-24 23:08:09 +0200 |
| commit | 2910b7c5b1d55bc304344b584a25ea571a9075fb (patch) | |
| tree | bfbfbc98d4c0e205d2726fa44170a16e8421855e /community/weblogs | |
| parent | 35b719f54c96778f571984065579625bc9f15bf5 (diff) | |
Prepare toolchain/logs/master branch.
Diffstat (limited to 'community/weblogs')
26 files changed, 0 insertions, 2167 deletions
diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 1e80e5a8..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,45 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2008, 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled -[[GNU Free Documentation License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -I'm just a Hurd dabbler who likes the ideas behind the Hurd: - -*"With the Hurd, users can change anything in their system which doesn't affect other -users."* - -And this is one definition of freedom in a community: *"Do what you want as long as -you don't restrict others from doing what they want."* - -In contrast, current systems (like Linux, MacOSX, Windows or others) require root/admin access to just install a new file system for reading out a nonstandard USB-stick (OK, who'd put reiserfs, zfs or similar on a USB stick? but still...). - -Why do I have to be root or even to recompile my kernel in Linux to get a new filesystem to run? Why can't I just start a program which takes care of the filesystem for me, and only for me? - -Well, with the Hurd I can do that, and it will be a transparent layer over my normal filesystem. - -And the same is true for networking stuff and anything else. Hacking on the deep internals of the system is possible with the Hurd without all the pain of having to compile the kernel to check it - and even without the need of superuser access for doing to. - -And sharing and exchanging programs deep inside the core is possible, too, since any Hurd user can just test them without fearing to compromise his/her machine. - - -Myself, I don't hack the kernel or anything (this shouldn't be a 'yet', I think, but I try not to be too sure about these kinds of things - life is weird :) ), but I'd sure like to be able to just get a new filesystem when I need it (and I don't dig rebooting my computer). - -And I like my freedom - in my life as well as in technology. - - -See you in the Hurd! - -- Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de ) - ------ My Blog ----- - -[[!inline -pages="community/weblogs/ArneBab/* and !community/weblogs/ArneBab/*/*" -show=0 -actions=no -rootpage="community/weblogs/ArneBab" postformtext="Add a new entry named:"]] diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-06-17-latest-changes-in-the-hurd.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-06-17-latest-changes-in-the-hurd.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 111bb640..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-06-17-latest-changes-in-the-hurd.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,18 +0,0 @@ -In the past few months the Hurd got quite many commits. - -I want to write a bit about the changes they brought, and what they mean to the Hurd. - -If some of my comments seem too 'simple' to you, just ignore them :) - -First we got many Bug fixes from Samuel Thibault, mainly in libpthread (multithreading), ext2fs and libdiskfs (both filesystem interaction). - -Then hurd-l4 (the port of the Hurd on the L4 kernel) seems to get quite much love by Neal H. Walfield (neal) at the moment. -Quite much is saying a bit to little: hurd-l4 looks steamingly active in the commits :) - -And there is the [PyHurd](http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyHurd) project. It attempts to create a full binding to the GNU/Hurd API, so people should someday be able to, for example, create translators in Python. - -There's been more - a lot more in fact, but much of it is above my coding horizon, and this entry shall end someplace (it's late - too late :) ). - -Best wishes, -Arne - diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-07-12-codeswarm-movies-for-the-hurd.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-07-12-codeswarm-movies-for-the-hurd.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 54bd0eff..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-07-12-codeswarm-movies-for-the-hurd.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,29 +0,0 @@ -Today (OK, this night) I created some codeswarm movies to visualize the code history of the Hurd. - -What's particularly interesting to me in gnumach is the tschwinge - sthibaul effect in march 2008, where development suddenly seems to speed up enormeously. - -It clearly shows how much impact just two developers can have - you can have that kind of an impact, too! - -The code movies are created from the history of the cvs branches gnumach, hurd-l4 and -hurd. - -The movies: - - - [Gnumach](http://draketo.de/filme/codeswarm/gnumach_code_evolution.avi) - - - [Hurd](http://draketo.de/filme/codeswarm/gnu_hurd_code_evolution_1_min.avi) - - - [Hurd L4](http://draketo.de/filme/codeswarm/hurd-l4.avi) - - - [Hurd wiki](http://draketo.de/filme/codeswarm/hurd_wiki.avi) - -in gnumach, red is the "kern", while in "hurd" red is stuff in "release". - -.*doc.* is dark blue and any stuff named .*linux.* is shown in a blue-green in -both. In Hurd-L4 is annotated: It shows libc, gcc, Hurd and L4 kernel commits in -different colors. - -The hurd wiki movie shows all web commits as "web-hurd@gnu.org", and you can clearly see that most changes are being done via the version control system. There's a way to split the web-commits, but since there aren't many, I leave that for another day :) - [article on the ikiwiki page](http://ikiwiki.info/news/code_swarm/). - -Best wishes, -Arne diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-08-02-gnu_hurd_and_x.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-08-02-gnu_hurd_and_x.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index d72f4cef..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2008-08-02-gnu_hurd_and_x.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,38 +0,0 @@ -Getting X to work on the GNU/Hurd -================================= - -This is a try to get X to work in my qemu GNU/Hurd. - -*This is a first try, my next one will be with the [[guide_from_this_wiki|Hurd/DebianXorg]].* - -Firstoff: I used the following guides: - -* [X Under the Hurd from debian-hurd](http://www.kerneltraffic.org/debian-hurd/dh20000112_31.html#3) -* [GNU/Hurd FAQ](http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq.en.html#q4-7) - - -What I did ----------- - -I worked as root. - -First I installed xorg, x-window-system-code, rxvt and twm: - - apt-get install xserver-xorg x-window-system-core rxvt twm - -Then I set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH and DISPLAY - - export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/X11R6/lib - export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0 - -After that I set the mouse and keyboard translator. - - settrans /dev/kbd /hurd/kbd /dev/kbd - settrans -c /dev/mouse /hurd/mouse --protocol=ps/2 - -Then I started x - - startx - -It didn't work yet - but watch the blog for updates - I'll post once I get it -working. diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-pyhurd.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-pyhurd.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index b0e57bfb..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-pyhurd.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,148 +0,0 @@ -Python Bindings for the Hurd (PyHurd) -========================== - -## Contact information - -- Name: Arne Babenhauserheide -- E-Mail Address: arne_bab@web.de -- IRC-nick: ArneBab @ freenode -- Jabber-ID: arne@jabber.fsfe.org -- Phone-number: XXXXXXXXX -- GnuPG key: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt - -## Who I am - -I am a physics student from Heidelberg, Germany, a passionate free software user and roleplayer, and I started contributing to the Hurd in minor ways about 5 years ago. Now my coding skills are good enough (and I have enough time) that I feel ready to tackle a GSoC project - and I want to take the chance GSoC offers and do a focussed effort for contributing to free software before I am no longer a student. I married 4 years ago and now have a 5½ month old son whoose happy laughing can make you forget everything around you - or at least it does that to me, but what else could you expect to hear from his father about him ;) - -## Project - -For this years GSoC I want to turn the currently rudimentary Python Bindings of the Hurd into a complete Python-library for low-level Hurd and Mach hacking with high level functionality to allow for easy creation of complex applications. Particularly it should make it possible to utilize the whole Python standard library for translators. - -## Preliminary Schedule - - * *Community bonding period.* - Read up on the current C-interface to the Hurd and Cython. Especially grok the Hurd hacking guide. Add docstrings to all existing source files (where they are missing) explaining what they do. Add auto-generated API-docs. Deliverable: Easy to understand API-docs of the current PyHurd, a simple way to generate them from the sources automatically. - * *May 23.* - Coding starts. - * *May 30.* - Finished a basic Hello World translator, naively implementing the necessary Mach parts directly in the translator. - 1. A simple program which gets a Mach port and can receive messages on that port. It has to get and hold its port at startup and send a reply port, needs to use mach_msg to get the messages, should be able to deallocate the port and must have a kill condition (for example 10 received messages). - 2. stdout functionality, to print all Mach messages (for debugging and to make sure that they really get received entirely). - 3. a parser for the Mach read file message similar to trivfs\_S\_io\_read - * *June 6.* - Moved the functionality for reading into a simple API using decorators to define actions - and ported Hello World to use it: - - """Show Hello World.""" - from translator import repres - @repres.text.event - def on_text_read(size): - return "Hello, World!"[:size] - * *June 13.* - Implemented single file read-write in the API. Added a simple writethrough translator. The API code is nicely commented. - * *June 20.* - Access Control and file attributes. Added lock_file translator which just adjusts the effective file access codes and can be used to lock a file as long as the translator is used. Might be useful for quick testing. - * *June 27.* - Translator commandline arguments and testing. - * *July 4.* - Translator: Overlay with backend store: write changes to a different file. Makes any file writeable, but keeps the changes only visible for the user who set up the translator. Effectively single-file unionmount. - * *July 11.* - Mid-term: trivfs in python works: It is possible to write translators in Python with relative ease. - * *July 18.* - More complex, specialized and helper translator libraries, along with example translators. This should recreate some of the Hurd libraries for Python and add convenience options. - * *July 25.* - Full featured setttrans in Python. - * *August 1.* - Redesigned and realized an updated controlling API with the existing direct Cython bindings. - * *August 8.* - More translators and integrating into the build system. - * *August 15.* - Suggested Pencils down. The translator API is easy to use, there are many example translators and there is a full featured settrans command in Python using the easier controlling API which shows how to control the Hurd directly from Python. The code is pushed to <https://github.com/ArneBab/PyHurd> and a git repo at <http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd> and integrated into the build system with a switch to enable building PyHurd. - * *August 22.* - Firm pencils down. - - -## Initial Fix - -Initial Fix: Making PyHurd build again under Cython 0.14.1. Sent as patch series to bug-hurd@gnu.org - -## Detailed answers - -### What I have to learn, and what I already know - -I need to dive into the detailed interfaces of the Hurd to get a better understanding of the exact requirements for a well usable Python interface, especially for higher level functionality, and read up more on working with Cython. - -I already know Python and I did design my share of interfaces for my own hobby projects ([TextRPG][], [Fungus][], [evolve-keyboard-layout][] and others). - -[TextRPG]: https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/textrpg/ -[Fungus]: https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/fungus -[evolve-keyboard-layout]: https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/evolve-keyboard-layout - -Also I know the functionality and design of the Hurd from a user perspective and can code in C and C++. - -### Why did you choose this project idea? What do you consider most appealing about it? - -FIrstoff: It is about making it possible for me to hack on the Hurd using my favorite programming language. - -Also I can learn more about accessing low-level interfaces directly (as opposed to just using higher level abstractions) and grok the ins and outs of creating Python extensions - into which I wanted to dive for a long time now. - -And I helped getting the project running and am intrigued by how far it can be pushed. - -### Have you been involved in any free software ("Open Source") projects yet? Which projects, how long, and in what way have you been involved? Have you been active in the Hurd project/Hurd community before? - -I worked on documentation and news for the Hurd, wrote two plugins and the usage guide for Mercurial and created a bunch of personal Python projects. Also I generally try to nudge other Hurd developers into the direction of actually getting the system useful for people (and communicating its strengths) - and do the same for the freenet project. - -In my opinion, my major contribution to the Hurd is the Month of the Hurd, a try at fixing the Hurds reputation for never being finished. To achieve that goal, the Month of the Hurd only lists actually testable successes for which I can easily describe how they get the Hurd closer to its vision, ideally those which are already committed. - -### Please briefly describe the Hurd, including the goals, architecture etc. Also, what makes you interested in the Hurd? Why do you want to work on it? What is your vision of it's future development? - -The Hurd offers much greater freedom for users compared to Linux, because every user can change his/her environment to a much greater extent. - -Also it allows for easier low-level tinkering, making it possible for hobby-hackers to work on stuff which in linux requires dabbling with kernel-sources. Also it makes it much easier to test these low-level work, so a community can spawn which informally shares low-level hacks, giving a much bigger momentum for low-level work. - -And it allows for containment of potentially dangerous applications using subhurds. As a very simple example, I can open a webbrowser without giving it access to the internet and just add that capability later, when I really want to go online (as opposed to just showing local files). - -But mainly: - - settrans -a ftp\: /hurd/hostmux /hurd/ftpfs / - dpkg -i ftp://ftp.gnu.org/…/*.deb - -And that’s only the beginning. - -### Are you subscribed to the bug-hurd@gnu.org mailing list? (See http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hurd ) - -Yes :) - -### Do you have a permanent internet connection, especially during the time of the summer session? Are you able and willing to hang out on the Hurd IRC channel regularly? (As in: Running the IRC client more or less permanently and checking for activity now and then.) If it turns out that your mentor lives in a different time zone, could you shift your day/night rhythm to better match that of your mentor and other Hurd developers? - -Yes, a permanent internet connection as well as a permanently running computer. Since I’m used to also work later in the evening (on hobby projects), the time zone should not be a major issue. - -### When does your university term end, when are your exams, and when does the next term begin? - -I have a clean timetable for the summer: No exams anymore. - -### How much time do you intend to spend on your GSoC project per day/week during the summer months? - -I plan to spend at least 40 hours per week on the PyHurd. - -### What other major activities will you engage in during the summer? (Moving apartments, longer vacations, other obligations, etc.) If any, how do you intend to make sure you will be able to dedicate sufficient time to your project nevertheless? - -Finding a job for after the GSoC. This should not take too much time, all in all, but rather mean short out-times now and then. - -### How do you intend to make sure that your code will keep on being maintained and supported properly after the end of the GSoC program? - -My main plan to keep it maintained is to comment it cleanly, and naturally to keep using the Hurd and PyHurd itself, so any breakage will bother me personally. - -Also i want to get it merged into the main git repositories, so it is directly accessible for later developers. - -### Anything else you want to add to your application? - -I’d love to work on PyHurd, because it grips me more and more. For example a high level API might get as simple as - - from translator.source.text import * - from translator.repres.tree import * - def source_text_changed(text): … (adapt tree object) - def repres_tree_changed(tree): … (adapt text object) - → 2-way connectingk,5 - writeonly is then done by simply leaving out the definition for the source_<whatever>_changed. - source is the node below and repres is the translated node diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-python-test.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-python-test.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 4c20afa1..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-python-test.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1 +0,0 @@ -Cancelled. See [[community/weblogs/ArneBab/2011-04-06-application-pyhurd]] instead. diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/Hurd-showcase-qemu-image.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/Hurd-showcase-qemu-image.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 00d09094..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/Hurd-showcase-qemu-image.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,111 +0,0 @@ -I’m currently preparing a qemu image for the Hurd which allows testing the capabilities of the Hurd with as little effort as possible. - -**Work in progress. These are my in-development notes.** - -For that I want to use: - -* An up to date debian image (no longer online, but I have a copy here). -* My [Hurd Intro](http://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/hurd_intro), -* Translators from [hurd-extras](http://www.nongnu.org/hurdextras/) and the [incubator](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/incubator.git/), and naturally -* a lot of apt-get update; apt-get upgrade and apt-get dist-upgrade :) (all worked flawlessly). - -## Working - -### Generally - - # ssh with public key - apt-get install random-egd - ssh-keygen - - # build tools - apt-get install build-essential - -### StoreIO - - # mount an iso image - mount foo.iso bar -t iso9660fs - # see myfile as device - settrans foo /hurd/storeio myfile - # so that means I can pack a complete chroot (300MB) into a file with storeio and ext2fs — giselher - - # nfs mount anywhere (TODO: check this with antrik) - mount server:/home /home -t nfs - settrans /home /hurd/nfs server:/home - -## In Progress - -### Hurdextras - - hg clone <hurdextras repo> - -### httpfs - - # pkg-config is needed to avoid “PKG_CHECK_MODULES syntax error near unexpected token `HTTPFS,'” - # pkg-config must be installed before you run autoreconf. - apt-get install autoconf autoconf-archive libxml2-dev pkg-config - autoreconf -i -f - ./configure - make - make install - - settrans -ac gnu /usr/local/httpfs www.gnu.org/ - # (breaks, because libxml2 needs pthreads → work to do.) - # (what we need: pthreads in translators. → see the [work of Barry](https://savannah.gnu.org/task/?func=detailitem&item_id=5487)) - # check: for i in `objdump -x /usr/local/bin/httpfs |grep NEEDED| sed s/.*NEEDED//`; do echo $i; objdump -x /usr/lib/$i | grep pthread; objdump -x /lib/$i | grep pthread; done - -### Tarfs - - apt-get install zip libz-dev libbz2-dev - git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/hurd/incubator.git tarfs - cd tarfs/ - git checkout tarfs/master - cd tarfs - make - make install - # works, though with warnings. - - settrans -ca new /hurd/tarfs -cz test/intro.tar.gz - cp repos/intro/README new/ - settrans -g new - tar -tf test/intro.tar.gz - # works - - tar -cf test/intro.tar repos/intro - settrans -ac t /hurd/tarfs test/intro.tar - # (settrans: /hurd/tarfs: Translator died :( ⇒ more work to do ) - -### nsmux - - git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/hurd/incubator.git nsmux - cd nsmux/ - git checkout -b nsmux origin/nsmux - - apt-get install autoconf autoconf-archive - autoreconf -i -f - ./configure - make - make install - - cd ../.. - mkdir test - touch test/hello - settrans -ca test2 /usr/local/bin/nsmux test - # tar -cvf test/intro.tar repos/hurd_intro - cat test2/hello - cat test2/hello,,hello - # Hello, World! - -### clisp - - git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/hurd/incubator.git clisp - cd clisp/ - git checkout -b clisp origin/clisp - - apt-get install texi2html - make - make install - - -### debugging Translators - - rpctrace diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/What_a_Hurd_release_should_be_able_to_do_for_me.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/What_a_Hurd_release_should_be_able_to_do_for_me.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 51ef2a85..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/What_a_Hurd_release_should_be_able_to_do_for_me.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,40 +0,0 @@ -I thought a bit about what I’d need from Hurd to use it for some of my real life tasks. - -My desktop has to be able to do everything it does now, and that under high load, so it currently is no useful target for the Hurd. - -But then I have an OLPC XO sitting here, and I use it mostly for work and for clearly defined tasks. As such it seems natural to me to check, what the Hurd would have to be able to do to support my workflow on the OLPC. - -### What I need - -* Writing text and programming Python with emacs. - *works*. -* Use Mercurial for my versiontracked stuff. - *works*. -* Reading websites with emacs and w3m or with lynx. - *works*. -* Use SSH to go on my desktop and on the university machine. - *should work*. -* Run X11 with dwm and emacs. - *should work*. -* Boot Hurd on the OLPC from a USB stick. - *not yet*? -* Support networking over wlan and wpa_supplicant. - *not yet*? Might DDE kit help? -* Listen to music with Quod Libet in X11. - *not yet*. Needs audio support. - -### What would be nice - -* Run a Gentoo system. - not *really* needed, but nice to update my system with the same tools. -* Watch videos with mplayer. - unlikely. Even with Linux as kernel watching videos pushes my XO to the limit. But this is not essential. - - -So, as soon as Debian GNU/Hurd (or Arch Hurd) supports the things I need, I’ll put it on a USB-stick and use it for coding and writing. - -To be frank: I’d likely even use it without audio-support. I have an mp3 player and can feed it via USB. So the essential features for me are: - -### Essential features - -* Writing text and programming Python with emacs. - works. -* Use Mercurial for my versiontracked stuff. - works. -* Use SSH to go on my desktop and on the university machine. - should work. -* Boot Hurd on the OLPC from a USB stick. - not yet? -* Support networking over wlan and wpa_supplicant. - not yet? Might DDE kit help? - -### Conclusion - -The Hurd doesn’t yet do everything I need for my OLPC, but it isn’t that far away either. Grub already gets [ported to OLPC](http://grub.enbug.org/OLPC), so what’s missing to make the Hurd a work system for me are just *booting on OLPC from USB stick* and *wlan-support on OLPC*. - -All the rest I need for work is already in place. diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/hurd-gsoc2008-code_swarm.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/hurd-gsoc2008-code_swarm.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 01757867..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/hurd-gsoc2008-code_swarm.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,11 +0,0 @@ -Hurd GSoC 2008 code_swarm -========================= - -I created a code_swarm of the work done in the Hurd project during this years Google -Summer of Code. - -* [Hurd GSoC 2008 code_swarm](http://draketo.de/filme/codeswarm/hurd-gsoc2008.ogv) - -I hope you enjoy it! - -PS: Now also available [on vimeo](http://www.vimeo.com/2097773) thanks to scolobb! diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/metadata-and-program-communication-akonadi-nepomuk-dbus.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/metadata-and-program-communication-akonadi-nepomuk-dbus.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 41c82c83..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/metadata-and-program-communication-akonadi-nepomuk-dbus.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,20 +0,0 @@ -Just ideas for more elegant implementations of dbus and akonadi/nepomuk using Hurd interfaces - -tagging: - - settrans ~/ /hurd/nsmux - ls ~/file,,metadata - -store in ~/.metadata - -network store: search for .metadata - -All metadata: - - settrans meta /hurd/metadata --show-store - -dbus: - - settrans -a /dbus /hurd/dbus - -Programs just add an active translator in /dbus: /dbus/org.… → receives dbus calls in-process. diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_for_the_hurd.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_for_the_hurd.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 5febe7b6..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_for_the_hurd.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,361 +0,0 @@ -Niches for the Hurd -=================== - -In the bug-hud mailinglist we did a search for niches where the Hurd is *the biggest -fish in the pond*. - -This search was segmented into four distinct phases, three of them major: - -- Brainstorm -- Reality check: can already do vs. could be used for -- Turn ideas into applications -- Find a compromise -> About which niches should we talk in the wiki? - - -Brainstorm ----------- - -"Which niches could there be for the Hurd?" - -### Basic Results - -The result is a mix of target groups, -nice features and options of the Hurd, reasons for running a Hurd and areas where -the Hurd offers advantages: - -#### Nice features and options the Hurd offers - -- Give back power to users: arbitrary mounts, subhurds -- Nice features: dpkg -iO ftp://foo/bar/*.deb -- Easier access to low-level functions -- Advanced lightweight virtualization -- operating system study purposes as its done with minix -- The possibility to create more efficient and powerful desktop environments -- Having a _complete_ GNU System -- All-in-one out-of-the-box distro running a webserver for crash-proof operation. - - -#### Target groups and strong environments - -- Tinkerers who like its design. -- multicore-systems - - -### The keyphrases in more detail or with additional ideas - -#### Give back power to users: arbitrary mounts, subhurds - -Simpler virtual computing environments - no need to setup XEN, everyone can -just open up his/her computer for someone else by creating a new user account, -and the other one can login and easily adapt the system for his/her own needs. -If most systems just differ by the translators setup on them, people could -even transfer their whole environment from one computer to another one without -needing root access or more root interaction than creating a new user account. -"I want my tools" -> "no problem, just setup your translators". - -Also it would be possible to just open an account for stuff like joining the -"World Community Grid" allowing for easier sharing of CPU time. - - -#### Easier access to low-level functions - -*"One important use is for very technical people, who don't always go with -standard solutions, but rather use new approaches to best solve their -problems, and will often find traditional kernels too limiting."* - -*"Another interesting aspect is application development: With the easily -customized/extended system functionality, and the ability to contain -such customizations in subenvironments, I believe that Hurd offers a -good platform for much more efficient development of complex -applications. Application developers can just introduce the desired -mechanisms on a very low level, instead of building around existing -abstractions. The extensible filesystem in particular seems extremely -helpful as a powerful, intuitive and transparent communication -mechanism, which allows creating truly modular applications."* - - -#### Advanced lightweight virtualization - -*"There is also the whole area I called "advanced lightweight -virtualization" (see -http://tri-ceps.blogspot.com/2007/10/advanced-lightweight-virtualization.html -), i.e. the ability to create various kinds of interesting -subenvironments. Many use cases are covered by much bigger fish; but the -flexibility we offer here could still be interesting: I think the middle -grounds we cover between directly running applications, and full -isolation through containers or VMs, are quite unique. This could -simplify management of demanding applications for example, by partially -isolating them from other applications and the main system, and thus -reducing incompatibilities. Creating lightweight software appliances -sounds like an interesting option.*" - -#### The possibility to create more efficient and powerful desktop environments - -*"While I believe this can be applied to any kind of applications, I'm -personally most interested in more efficient and powerful desktop -environments -- these considerations are in fact what got me seriously -interested in the Hurd.* - -*Even more specifically, I've done most considerations (though by far not -all) on modular web browsing environments. Those interested can read up -some of my thoughts on this:* - - -http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=20080909073154.GB821%40alien.local - -*(Just skip the text mode browsing stuff -- the relevant part is the long -monologue at the end... I really should put these ideas into my blog.)"* - - - -#### Nice features - -Another example of features which would be easily possible with the Hurd: - -* transparent ftp (already possible!): - - settrans -c ftp: /hurd/hostmux /hurd/ftpfs / - - ls ftp://ftp.gnu.org/ - - # -> list the files on the FTP server. - - -* media-player translator: - - settrans play /hurd/mediaplayer_play - - cp song1.ogg song2.ogg play - - # -> files get buffered and played. - -or even: - -* cp ftp://foo/bar/ogg play - -that's KDEs fabled network transparency on the filesystem / shell level (where it belongs to be desktop agnostic). - -* add temporary filesystems anywhere via `settrans -a NODE /hurd/ext2fs` - -* On-demand mounted filesystems via a passive translator which unmounts the filesystem when it isn’t used for some time. - -* make everything temporarily writeable without really changing it via [[hurd/translator/unionfs]]. Store the changes on an external device. - -* Read tar archives and mbox files via `ls foo.tar.gz,,tarfs` and `ls foo.mbox,,mboxfs`, respectively → [[hurd/translator/nsmux]]. - -* Use stuff like the new akonady (personal information) framework in KDE more efficiently from the shell. - - -Reality check -------------- - -Check which of the ideas can already be done easily with the Hurd in its current -state, which ones are a bit more complex but already possible, which ones need a bit -of coding (could be accomplished in a few months judging from the current speed of -development), which ones need a lot of work (or fundamental changes) and which ones -aren't possible. - -### Already possible and easy - -- Sample translators: - * hello world. - * transparently bind FTP into the filesystem - * hostmux + ftpfs -> connect to FTP automatically via asking for a dir named after the hostname -> fully transparent FTP filesystem: "touch ftp: ; settrans ftp: /hurd/hostmux /hurd/ftpfs / " - * bind any filesystem at any place in the directory tree (you have access to) without needing to be root. - * elegantly mount iso images and similar as unprivileged user. - -- Other useful stuff: - * Install deb-packages from an ftp server via 'dpkg -iO ftp://foo/bar/package.deb' - * remount a filesystem readonly as regular user: fsysopts /foo -r - * give a process additional group and user permissions at runtime: - $ groups - root - $ ps -L # gives me the PID of my login bash -> bashPID - ... - $ addauth -p bashPID -g mail - $ groups - root mail - -- Having a complete GNU System (but not yet on every hardware, and only about half the software Debian offers has been ported). - -### Already possible but complex or underdocumented - -- Easier access to low-level functions via translators. - -- Operating system study purposes as it's done with minix. - -- Tinkering for fun - need documentation about the fun things which can be done. - -### Need a few months of coding - -- A filesystem-based package manager. - -- subhurds for regular users - * A framework for confining individual applications is - really just one possible use case of the hurdish - subenvironments. Writing the tools necessary for that - should be quite doable in a few months. It's probably - not really much coding -- most of the work would be - figuring out how it should be set up exactly. - * subusers - * "subdo": - # Example: Let a virus run free, but any effect vanishes - # once the subhurd closes. - $ subdo --no-lasting-changes ./virus - -- subhurds for quickly adapting the whole system without bothering others. - -- Define your personal environment via translators, so you can easily take it with -you (translators written in scripting laguages can make this easier - they could -also for example be taken to each computer on USB stick). - -- A more powerful alternative to FUSE filesystems: While FUSE is limited to standard -filesystem semantics, while Hurd translators can implement whatever they -want. -It is possible to change the behaviour in any aspect, including the way -file name lookup works. Admittedly the only specific use case I know is -the possibility to implement namespace-based translator selection with a -set of normal translators, without any changes to the Hurd itself. -It is also possible to extend the filesystem interfaces, adding new RPCs -and options as needed. This allows using the filesystem for -communication, yet implementing domain-specific interfaces where -standard filesystems are too unefficient or cumbersome. A sound server -would be one possible use case. - -- Namespace based translator selection (if you for example want to quickly check the -contents of an iso image, just look at them via 'ls image.iso,,iso9660fs'). - -### Need a lot of coding or fundamental changes - -- Effective resource management (For example via Viengoos on which Neal Walfield is -working). The idea is that we could make a virtue out of necessity: Once we have a -proper resource management framework, we should be able not only to catch up with -traditional systems in this reagard, but in fact surpass them. - -- The possibility to create more efficient and powerful desktop environments. - -- Currently to offer CPU time to some project (like the World Community Grid), it is -necessary to install a program from them, and they can then do only what that proram -allows them to - which leads to reinventing a processing environment instead of just -using the existing OS. -With the Hurd people could just create a user for them, give that user specific -permissions (like "you're always lowest priority"), add the public ssh keys of -the project they want to donate CPU cycles to, and the project could just turn -the computer into the environment it needs for the specific computation, -without compromising the main system in any way (needs better resource management). - -- A shared MMORPG game world consisting simply of files for levels and person -descriptions with access rights. All synchronizing is done on the translator -level. Programs only have to display the given files and quickly update the -state of their own files, so the programs stay very easy. The translator could -notify the program when something changes. - -- Multicore systems (need to fixup Mach for SMP) - -- Running parts of the Hurd on different computers, maybe even with shared servers on -dedicated hardware (Cloud Computing when the servers can be made to migrate from -between computers). Maybe this should be placed in "need a lot of coding". - - - -### Unfeasible ideas - - - -Applications ------------- - -A minor phase, which will surely be interleaved with the others: Making the ideas -tangible to turn them into ways how people can use the Hurd. - -*"Hey, look, this is the Hurd. You can use it like this to do that which you can't do -as well/easily/elegantly in any other way."* - - -### Applications for private use - -### Applications for companies - -### How an application should be presented so people can easily test and digest it - -We need stuff which gets people to say "hey that's cool!" - -And it must be readily available. -If I have to search for arcane command line parameters before I can use it, -it's too hard. - -From what I see, each direct cool application must be about as simple as - -$ qemu hurd-is-cool.img -$ login root -$ settrans cool /hurd/cool -$ ls cool - -One main focus in this example is: No command line parameters but the ones we -really need. No "-a", if the example is also cool without it. -No "--console" if it works otherwise. - -Especially no *"qemu --cd livecd --hda hurd.img ..."* - that one is great for -people who already know qemu or want to learn it, but the goal here isn't to teach people -better usage of qemu, but to show them that the Hurd is cool, and only that. - -All that interesting advanced stuff just gets newcomers confused. - -The translator concept in itself is enough news to faze a mind - anything else -can easily be too much. - -If the application isn't as simple as the example above, then the best step -would be to see if we can make it as simple - if that involves writing trivial -scripts than be it so. They are trivial only to those who already understand -the underlying concepts. - -And now enough with rambling :) - -The Hurd is cool, and the complex to use applications are cool, too. -But they are hard to present in a way newcomers easily understand. - - -Compromise ----------- - -For each niche: - -- What do we have to do to conquer the niche? -- How many additional programmers can the Hurd get in this niche? -- How does choosing this niche limit the flexibility of further development (for example due to the goals of the people who join up)? -- Can we easily move on to conquering the next niche once we got this one? -- What should the Hurd accomplish on the long term (long term goals)? Which possible niches help that? - -Each participant: - -- Give your personal priorities to the niches: - * Must -> all of these of all developers must be included; - remember that at most 3 to 4 ideas can be conveyed in any text. - * Should -> The number of shoulds can be used for ranking and similar. - -("must", because in a community people can do what they perceive as important, and -telling someone to stop what he's doing is no option (in my opinion)) - -**Result: We talk about the niches we can already fulfill :)** - - -Things to do ------------- - -todo-item -> niches for which it is useful. - -*This might be useful for the next GSoC.* - -### Easy - -- Port debian packages to the Hurd -> currently mainly tinkerers, but also any other niche. In the long run this is necessary for every user. Easy start for devs. -- Document easier access to low-level functions via translators, one function at a time. -> tinkerers. -- get nsmux ready for regular users by setting it up in the LiveCDs by default. -> show tinkerers what it can do. - -### Complex - -- A filesystem-based package manager: Unionmounting packages. With filterfs from nsmux packages any user should be able to selectively disable any package without affecting the system of others. Simple active translators can add packages. -> clean design and more freedom for tinkerers to setup test environments: “Does this also work with XY disabled?” -- Enable subhurds for regular users via a subdo command: A framework for confining individual applications. -> tinkerers for testing their work. -- Define your personal environment via translators, so you can easily take it with -you ⇒ system on a USB stick. Would work great with a filesystem based package manager. -> ? - -### Huge - -- Get Hurd/GNU Mach ready for efficient multicore usage. -> multicore -- Running parts of the Hurd on different computers, maybe even with shared servers on -dedicated hardware (Cloud Computing when the servers can be made to migrate from -between computers). -> multicore on steroids :) diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/porting-simple-packages.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/porting-simple-packages.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index becea251..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/porting-simple-packages.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,72 +0,0 @@ -# Quick porting guide for simple packages - -*If you want to help port a package with simple issues to the Hurd, please read on.* - -*just imagine joe C-doodler stumbling over some GNU philosophy and thinking “hey, I’ve got 2 free hours, why not help the Hurd?”* -*for him I’d like to have a guide (and for me, the faulty-memory-does-too-many-things :) )* - -*a short guide “how to do simple ports” broken down to command line level: how to get the list of simple packages (youpi told me that here), how to get the source, how to test the fix, how to submit the fix.* - -## Setup an instant Hurd development environment - -See [[Instant Development Environment|contributing#index5h2]] - just follow the command to get a Hurd running in Qemu. - -## Getting the list of failed packages - - wget http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/failed_packages.txt.gz - gunzip failed_packages.txt.gz - -## Finding a simple task - - grep PATH_MAX failed_packages.txt -B 2 - -Each of these packages is likely to be simple to fix. The output looks like this: - - … - -- - tex/lilypond_2.12.3-7 by buildd_hurd-i386-mozart [optional:uncompiled:bp{-100}:calprio{-63}:days{258}] - Reasons for failing: - > file-name.cc:88: error: 'PATH_MAX' was not declared in this scope - -- - … - -in this case, lilypond is the package. - -Other simple tasks can be found on [[hurd/porting/guidelines]]. - -## Downloading the package source and installing dependencies - - apt-get source PACKAGE - apt-get build-dep PACKAGE - -For example - - apt-get source lilypond - apt-get build-dep lilypond - -## Fix the package - -See [[hurd/porting/guidelines]] for help on fixing the package. - -Notes: - -* char path[4096] is evil. Use dynamic allocation (if you can). -* use stuff like if (x < sysconf(_SC_PATH_MAX)) {} -* if need be, make it conditional - -\#ifdef PATH_MAX -old, POSIX-violating code -\#else -GNU, better code -\#endif - -## Test the fix (compile, run tests) - - cd PACKAGE - dpkg-buildpackage -B - -Also check the packages README for instructions. - -## Submit the fix - -See [[hurd/running/debian/patch_submission]]. diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/tasks-for-the-hurd.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/tasks-for-the-hurd.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index bf6224b2..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/tasks-for-the-hurd.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,63 +0,0 @@ -Tasks for the Hurd -================== - -*These tasks are compiled from the - [[community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_of_the_hurd]] and - [[community/weblogs/ArneBab/what_we_need]]. The first asked “where - can the Hurd find niches where it is the biggest fish in the pond, - and how?” while the second asked “what do we still need to make the - Hurd usable for most of its developers as system for their day-to-day - tasks?”.* - -*This might be useful for the next GSoC. Please feel free to edit - and/or migrate it mercilessly :)* - -### Easy - -- Port debian packages to the Hurd -> currently mainly tinkerers, but - also any other niche. In the long run this is necessary for every - user. Easy start for devs. -- Document easier access to low-level functions via translators, one - function at a time. -> tinkerers. -- get nsmux ready for regular users by setting it up in the LiveCDs by - default. -> show tinkerers what it can do. -- Test on modern machines. If it doesn’t work, file a bug: - [info](http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-hurd@gnu.org/msg19105.html). - - -### Complex - -- A filesystem-based package manager: Unionmounting packages. With - filterfs from nsmux packages any user should be able to selectively - disable any package without affecting the system of others. Simple - active translators can add packages. -> clean design and more - freedom for tinkerers to quickly setup test environments: “Does this - also work with XY disabled?” ⇒ rapid testing for different base - systems. -- Enable subhurds for regular users via a subdo command: A framework - for confining individual applications. -> tinkerers for testing - their work. -- Define your personal environment via translators, so you can easily - take it with you ⇒ system on a USB stick. Would work great with a - filesystem based package manager -> use the capabilities of a system - and all its installed packages without having to give up your own - custom environment. - -- Implement USB support, maybe using DDE or DDEkit -> prerequisite to system on USB. -- Add Wireless support, maybe via DDE. -- Add sound support via a sound translator. -- Add SATA support. -- Stabilize Xorg, so it can run fast for days. -- Add PPPoE capablilities. -- Debug NFS for climm, w3m and git. -- Port a full-featured browser (i.e. Firefox). -- (Graphical Desktop and switching between console and X) or full - featured high-resultion console which doesn’t need X (and emacs :) - ). - -### Huge - -- Get Hurd/GNU Mach ready for efficient multicore usage. -> multicore -- Running parts of the Hurd on different computers, maybe even with - shared servers on dedicated hardware (Cloud Computing when the servers - can migrate between computers). -> multicore on steroids :) diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 35e55518..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,56 +0,0 @@ -Some technical advantages of the Hurd -===================================== - -*→ An answer to [just accept it, truth hurds](http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2011/05/15/just-accept-it-truth-hurds), where Flameeyes told his reasons for not liking the Hurd and asked for technical advantages (and claimed, that the Hurd does not offer a concept which got incorporated into other free software, contributing to other projects). Note: These are the points I see. Very likely there are more technical advantages which I don’t see well enough to explain them. Please feel free to [point them out](http://draketo.de/comment/reply/447#comment-form).* - -*__Information for potential testers:__ The Hurd is already usable, but it is not yet in production state. It progressed a lot during the recent years, though. Have a look at the [[status_report|hurd/status]] if you want to see if it’s already interesting for you.* - -Thanks for explaining your reasons. As answer: - -Firstoff: [FUSE](http://fuse.sourceforge.net/) is essentially an implementation of parts of the [[translator_system|hurd/documentation/translators]] (which is the main building block of the [Hurd](http://hurd.gnu.org)) to Linux, and NetBSD recently got a [port of the translators system of the Hurd](http://netbsd-soc.sourceforge.net/projects/hurdt/). That’s the main contribution to other projects that I see. - -On the bare technical side, the **translator-based filesystem** stands out: The filesystem allows for making arbitrary programs responsible for displaying a given node (which can also be a directory tree) and to start these programs on demand. To make them persistent over reboots, you only need to add them to the filesystem node (for which you need the right to change that node). Also you can start translators on any node without having to change the node itself, but then they are not persistent and only affect your view of the filesystem without affecting other users. These translators are called active, and you don’t need write permissions on a node to add them. -<!--break--> -The filesystem implements stuff like Gnome VFS (gvfs) and KDE **network transparency on the filesystem level**, so those are available for all programs. And you can add a new filesystem as simple user, just as if you’d just write into a file “instead of this node, show the filesystem you get by interpreting file X with filesystem Y” (this is what you actually do when setting a translator but not yet starting it (passive translator)). - -One practical advantage of this is that the following works: - - settrans -a ftp\: /hurd/hostmux /hurd/ftpfs / - dpkg -i ftp://ftp.gnu.org/path/to/*.deb - -This installs all deb-packages in the folder `path/to` on the FTP server. The shell sees normal directories (beginning with the directory “ftp:”), so shell expressions just work. - -You could even define a Gentoo mirror translator (`settrans mirror\: /hurd/gentoo-mirror`), so every program could just access mirror://gentoo/portage-2.2.0_alpha31.tar.bz2 and get the data from a mirror automatically: `wget mirror://gentoo/portage-2.2.0_alpha31.tar.bz2` - -Or you could add a unionmount translator to root which makes writes happen at another place. **Every user is able to make a readonly system readwrite** by just specifying where the writes should go. But the writes **only affect his view of the filesystem**. - -Starting a network process is done by a translator, too: The first time something accesses the network card, the network translator starts up and actually provides the device. This replaces most **initscripts in the Hurd: Just add a translator to a node**, and the service will persist over restarts. - -It’s a surprisingly **simple concept, which reduces the complexity of many basic tasks needed for desktop systems**. - -And at its most basic level, *Hurd is a set of protocols for messages which allow using the filesystem to coordinate and connect processes* (along with helper libraries to make that easy). - -Also it adds **POSIX compatibility to Mach** (while still providing access to the capabilities-based access rights underneath, if you need them). You can **give a process permissions at runtime** and take them away at will. For example you can start all programs without permission to use the network (or write to any file) and add the permissions when you need them. - - groups # → root - addauth -p $(ps -L) -g mail - groups # → root mail - -And then there are subhurds (essentially **lightweight virtualization** which allows cutting off processes from other processes without the overhead of creating a virtual machine for each process). But that’s an entire post of its own… - -And the fact that a translator is just a simple standalone program means that these can be shared and tested much more easily, opening up completely new options for lowlevel hacking, because it massively lowers the barrier of entry. - -And then there is the possibility of *subdividing memory management* and using different microkernels (by porting the Hurd layer, as partly done in the NetBSD port), but that is purely *academic* right now (search for *Viengoos* to see what its about). - - -So in short: *The translator system in the Hurd is a simple concept which makes many tasks easy, which are complex with Linux (like init, network transparency, new filesystems, …). Additionally there are capabilities, subhurds and (academic) memory management.* - -Best wishes, -Arne - -*PS: I decided to read flameeyes’ post as “please give me technical reasons to dispell my emotional impression”.* - -*PPS: If you liked this post, it would be cool if you’d flattr it: <a href="http://flattr.com/thing/273582/Some-technical-advantages-of-the-Hurd" target="_blank"> -<img src="http://api.flattr.com/button/flattr-badge-large.png" alt="Flattr this" title="Flattr this" border="0" /></a>* - -*PPPS: Additional information can be found in [Gaël Le Mignot’s talk notes](http://kilobug.free.fr/hurd/pres-en/abstract/html/), in [niches for the Hurd](http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_for_the_hurd.html) and the [[GNU_Hurd_documentation_pages|hurd/documentation]].* diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd/discussion.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd/discussion.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 49b64509..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd/discussion.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,248 +0,0 @@ -## Followup discussion in IRC - -IRC, freenode, #hurd, 2011-05-15 - -<dl> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: hi, I read the hurd rant by flameeyes and your response ... I'm following Hurd for some time and would like to ask some questions about it, would you mind? :)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> please ask :)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> I don’t mind (as long as I have the time - which I have right now)</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ok, so essentially I'm trying to figure out, as flameeyes probably is, whether reasons behind developing Hurd are more philosophical/value based or are there real-world technical advantages to it as well</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> antrik: I think his original remark was meant as part-jokingly remark to an aquaintance - which seems fitting, when you keep in mind that flameeyes works very hard and very much on Gentoo, hardly the most popular distro (but the one I like most).</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: the reasons for working on the Hurd are a little bit different for every contributor.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> (or rather: vastly different :) )</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> as I'm reading about it and your reposne as well, I'm not sure the techical advantages you list would have any real world effect on usability of the OS, do you think they would?</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> I think they would</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: yeah, sure ... my reasons for supporting Hurd are philosophical/value based ... I'll say that outright</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> for example you enter an FTP address in your filebrowser. No problem. Then you want to grep the file contents.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> you go into the shell and first need to get the files (completely inconvenient)</dd> -<dt><-- npnth (~npnth@pdpc/supporter/active/npnth) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Disconnected by services) -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> or you use gnome and kde programs, and both access the same URL, but cache 2 times.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: isn't that solved by mounting it?</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> or you want to implement your own desktop and need to do that network transarency stuff yourself.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> You can’t really mount everything - especially not without root rights.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> and that’s just one aspect.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> But that’s only the technical side (he only wanted to hear that)</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> the thing is all these advantages seem too trivial to support a wholly new OS to be developed ... but maybe I'm mistaken, that's why I'm asking, I would love to be good techical reasons for Hurd ... but are not aware of any so far</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> What interests me the most as that I as user can change my environment without affecting others.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> s/as/is/</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> the main community part is (and I think I missed that), that any server is just a userspace program.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> it can be exchanged just like any other program</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> ArneBab: yeah, I found the original remark after following the other links... though it's rather painful to trace the conversations :-)</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: yeah, I understand that ... but what practical advantage would that give me I do not see ... as a server administrator for example</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> I can write an improved filesystem and pass it to you for testing, and you test it only for a backup snapshot of your disk without rebooting.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> As server admin, you don’t need to install all drivers users could need.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> the users can just install what they need themselves.</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> it certainly didn't sound half-joking though... and if it was meant privately, identi.ca is clearly NOT the right place</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: You simply provide a base which reduces the number of things people need to install.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: but do not I have to give them access to raw HW too then?</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> antrik: I prefer to always assume good faith :)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> brb</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> child</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> re</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> well, I do not see that people not able to install their own drivers on a server would be any problem currently</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> that's my point ... is seems to solve "problems" that are not really actual real world problems ...</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: no, you just give them a safe device, where a server makes sure they don’t do illegal things.</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: most of the advantages are not directly visible, unless you do very specific things, where traditional systems impose limits</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> For me network transparency is a realworld problem</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> as is that I can’t give a program network access later</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> but it makes many things easier, which in the end will translate into advantages for everyone I believe</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> “log out and in again to play games”</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> (after adding yourself to the games group)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> or better still: Always start with minimal rights and only add what is really needed.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> There’s no reason why a program should have access to my audio hardware without me granting it.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> That way I could even run malicious software without having to fear compromising my system.</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: I could come up with situations where it could help you as an administrator; but this is not really helpful. you won't really understand the advantages until you get into a specific situation that is hard to do on Linux for example, and much easier on the Hurd</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: well, then it becomes a tradeoff between security and user friendliness ... I do not think that problem is unsolvable currently, I think it is a design decision not to "solve it" as wast majority of users do not actually need or want it</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: Time and again I find myself sitting in front of my linux box and thinking “damn, this woul be so easy in the Hurd”</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> (I do most of my work on a Linux box)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Gentoo GNU/Linux with KDE and Emacs</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: yeah, could you give me an example of something that is hard on linux but easy under hurd? with real world implications for real use cases :)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: Get a hg/git log of a repo on an ftp server</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: no, it's *not* a tradeoff. the whole point is that the Hurd architecture allows users to customize their environment *without* compromising the security of the system</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> antrik LibreMan: I think there we have one point: When you use Linux you are used to thinking of the Linux limits as the absolute limits.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: the point is, wast majority of users do not need that ... AFAIK</dd> -<dt>-*- youpi is fed up with using sudo just to mount an iso image -<youpi></dt><dd> really</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> youpi: dbus</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: just wait for the first strong linux worm which spreads in a game and requires sudo for install… </dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> (and it's just one of the strongest examples)</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> Tekk_: ??</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: ArneBab already gave you various exmples. including at least one that works out of the box</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> youpi: with dbus you don't need root permissions</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> Tekk_: and you can mount any iso?</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> (others would require some additional coding)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Tekk_: but something needs them.</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> youpi: oh, iso...</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: why would a game need sudo to install? :)</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> Tekk_: yes, iso</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> or $WHATEVER_FS</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> youpi: sec</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: yes, I would ask that, too. But the general Ubuntu user?</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> or sshfs, or ftpfs, etc.</dd> -<dt>-*- ArneBab had hoped you’d catch that :) -<LibreMan></dt><dd> the area where I can imagine hurd being better is virtualization</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: again, the "general Ubuntu user" won't directly see the benefits. but he will see them when developers use them to implement nice features that would be much harder to implement elsewhere</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> making everything cloudy is a big trend nowadays and hurd could provide additional flexibility there ... or no? I'm really just guessing based on what I read</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> it's a bad trend</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: it could give me more options when I have to work on another ones computer. After all it was conceived in the time of dumb terminals - which now comes back.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: oh well, if we are talking about user stupidity then no OS is going to help ;)</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> I'm not sure whether the Hurd help with "making things cloudy", but it's not something I'd consider an advantage anyways :-)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: The OS can reduce the impact of user stupidity (called DAU in german: „Dümmster anzunehmender User“ → “dumbest conceivable user”)</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> as for virtualization, indeed there is a *very* close relation between that and microkernel systems, which most people fail to see...</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: the "cloud" is coming if we like it or not ... it better run on FOSS if it comes ;)</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> you know, you gues have a huge advantage</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> guys*</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> people have waited forever and written you off</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: just think about the difference between a GNU/Linux distro and Windows XP where you were admin at all times.</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> and as duke nukem forever shows, that's a good thing ;P</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> in fact, the only fundamental difference is that a VM makes the subenvironment look more or less like a real machine, while in traditional microkernel systems different interfaces are used</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: A Hurd system would go one step further.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> You’d even need a password more seldomly, reducing the incentive to just work as admin.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Reason: There are less things which can really badly impact the system.</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: when talking about "the cloud", people usually mean things that are fundamentally incompatible with the idea of free software</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> (you don't have control over the software running web services)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> antrik: but the cloud just means “I’m on a different computer”. AGPLv3 is cool there :)</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: yeah, that's the common bussines practice but it doesn't have to be ... AGPL ;)</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> ArneBab: well, actually "the cloud" means something different to everyone ;-)</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I do not have any problem with a cloud running AGPL software</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> antrik: well, yes :)</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> ArneBab: but generally it relies on using programs on foreign machines, controlled by someone else. AGPL doesn't change that</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> freedombox is going to be a "cloud" too</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: that's not what most people mean by "cloud"</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> at least I hope so</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> I don’t have control over my webserver. I can’t run a real Python there. Hurd could change that (though that will take a lot of coding: the conceptual options are there)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: what could interest you: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/weblogs/ArneBab/niches_for_the_hurd.html</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> “Niches of the Hurd”</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> what I mean by "the cloud" is what Eben Moglen explaied it as ... the technology which make it possible to forget about the "iron" and move servers around seamlessly</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: thank.. going to look at it</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: that's actually more or less what used to be called "grid computing" before the cloud hype</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: well ... yes, essentially</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> LibreMan: but most people mean many other things too when talking about "clouds"</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> and anyways, you can't really forget about the iron. there is a middle layer which you don't have control of</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: sure, I would say that most people do not know what they mean :)</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> hmm</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> ArneBab: I can see a big place for virtualization in browsers</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> I mean, with everyone so worried about the code getting executed there, we just have GNUBrowse run in it's own little environment all closed off</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Tekk_: me too: safe subenvironments.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> the reason I follow Hurd is because i would LOVE to have viable GPLv3 OS as opposed to GPLv2 Linux</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> that's not a good reason</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> there are people hard at work subverting Linux</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> first of all, we'd have to get rid of all Linux code</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> locking it down ... and Linus doesn't seem to care</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> also, if that's all you care about, it would be less work to implement a simple monolithic kernel from scratch</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: so why is hurd a good idea if it's so much harder to develop?</dd> -<dt><-- azeem (~mbanck@p5DF41DDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) -<LibreMan></dt><dd> antrik: I thought that was the reason all along ... to develop GNU mopatible kernel</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: what do you mean GNU compatible?</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> Tekk_: the philosophy of GNU</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> ah, yes they've always needed a gnu kernel</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> the reason why it was created in a first place</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: I just added a missing part in the article: </dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> “And the fact that a translator is just a simple standalone program means that these can be shared and tested much more easily, opening up completely new options for lowlevel hacking, because it massively lowers the barrier of entry.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> ”</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ok, next question :) why is it so hard to make Hurd work?</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> because we are so few people… </dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I mean, it's in developement for 20 years or so, no?</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: it's never been done before too</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: well, one person developed Linux</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> One person make Linux basically work</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: there has *never* been a full microkernel outside of research, which is what hurd plans to be</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: yeah, one person made linux kinda work in a year, then basically handed it off to everyone to help</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> but if it's so much complicated to develop, is it worth it?</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: and that was with a well trodden path that everyone knwos</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> But for the Hurd to basically work means it already provides far more options than waat Linux did.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> That’s why the foundation is harder: It makes everything else easier.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> But at the moment it works.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> And I think I’ll just repeat that: The Hurd works. It is not feature complete, but all the really hard parts work.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Missing are many of the hard (but not really hard) parts, like adding drivers.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> (and then there are ultra hard features which are possible but currently layed off, but now I get into beat-em-up speech :) )</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I would define "works" as I can install it right now and run stable system ... I do not think it worls in those terms</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: that I’d define as production system</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> LibreMan: define "stable"</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: I'm pretty sure linux didn't "work" by your definition when linus passed it off</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> But I can start a Hurd right now and code in it.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: yeah, that's waht "works" means for me :)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> I can start emacs</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> LibreMan: I wouldn't even call my linux "stable"</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> as I just need to unplug my external USB hdd to make it crash...</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> while in a hurd system, it'd just crash the corresponding ext2fs daemon only</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> youpi: well yes :) but you can function on it pretty successfully ...</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: Frankly all I’m missing for a production environment are USB support and Audio.</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> you can on a hurd system too</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> (and it should work on an OLPC)</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> youpi: without USB and sound? :P</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Both are driver issues. No problem in the kernel.</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> I seldomly use USB and sound actually</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> and never for my actual work</dd> -<dt><-- Tekk_ (~user@2002:474d:d1e9:0:21d:72ff:fe24:4c37) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Remote host closed the connection) ---></dt><dd> Tekk_ (~user@2002:474d:d1e9:0:21f:3aff:fe54:7cc3) hat #hurd betreten</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> youpi: yeah, but how many users can ay that?</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> so what?</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> how many users can install linux?</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> does that make it unsuccessful?</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> many people actually</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> well, many people don't care about USB and sound either</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> depends what you mean by "many"</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> compared to how many do not mind having USB and sound ...</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> just like depends what you mean by "stable"</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> so _basically_ it works</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> not for all users on earth of course</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> not for all linux users of course</dd> -<dt><youpi></dt><dd> but for a lot of them already</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: USB and Sound are just driver issues.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> They are not part of the core functionality.</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: usb keyboards and mice work though</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: sure, but that doesn't matter ... user doen't care about the technicalities ...</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> I think</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: But for the Hurd it means that it’s no general unsolved problem, but just an issue of too little coders to do the work.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> if it's driver, kernel, microkernel whatever ... does it work or not, that's what it comes down to</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> s/too little/too few/</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> so it's a matter of attracting more people to work on it</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: yes</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> The Arch people helped a lot with that, because 2 distributions is not just 2× one distribution (in it’s outside effect)</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> But we need more people who do the easy work.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> relatively easy… </dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> porting the 10-15% packages which just have PATH_MAX issues.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> so there would need to be sufficient motivations for them to join developement ... so far I do not see any different than Free Software ideals</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> for example</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> jupp</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> plus some cool options.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> and experimenting in low-level</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> “ever wanted to write your own filesystem from scratch - and test it without wrecking your box?”</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I do not understand why FSF does not do something similar to GSoC</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: I assume “too little money”…</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: hurd is in the gsoc</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> yeah, that would be the obvious answer :) and the right onw I guess</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Besides: antrik, do you know how jkkenig fares?</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> LibreMan: gsoc is a per project thing, and most of them don't need the help</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> jkoenig</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> Tekk_: I know ... I just do not like that a company like Google needs to sponsor it and "we" are not selfsufficient</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> LibreMan: well, too few people are used to pay for what they like instead of for what requires payment.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> But that is changing.</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> ArneBab: exactly ...</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> things like Flattr are trying to change that mentalty</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Besides (stable): Hurd runs the Hurd wiki.</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> http://www.bddebian.com/~hurd-web/</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I'm quite surprised I did not know about this http://www.fossfactory.org</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I was planning to make such a website myself ...</dd> -<dt><LibreMan></dt><dd> I do not understand why it doesn't get more publicity ... the way Kickstarted does</dd> -<dt>-*- ArneBab goes lurker, sons here -<jkoenig></dt><dd> ArneBab, I have exams till friday, I should be more present after that</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> what does the hello world translator do? XD</dd> -<dt><ArneBab></dt><dd> Tekk_: content = hello</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> ArneBab: I have no idea about the status of GSoC</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> I haven't even read my mails for a couple of weeks; so you probably know more than me</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> Tekk_: provide a pseudo-file with "hello world" as contents</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> ah</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> BTW, gvfs is actually my favourite example of why the Hurd architecture makes sense</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> they implemented an extra GNOME-specific VFS layer, that is mostly redundant with the kernel one, adding complexity, overhead, and not integrated with the rest of the system -- and the only reason they need it is because the kernel VFS of traditional systems is too limited</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> with the Hurd's decentralized VFS, they could have implemented everything they need trivially right in the system VFS layer</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> the question is not really what features are possible with the Hurd architecture: given enough effort, any feature can be implemented with any architecture. it's the amount of effort that differs, making some things *feasible* that are not on other systems</dd> -<dt><Tekk_></dt><dd> see: windows ME</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> there is no reason for example why things like isolated subenvironments couldn't be implemented on Linux. (and it fact it's clearly moving in that direction, with the virtualisation hype) -- but it requires a shitload of kernel changes. while on Hurd all it needs is a little userspace programming</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> and every new feature added to Linux container solutions require further kernel hacking</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> or every new feature added to FUSE</dd> -<dt><antrik></dt><dd> and so on</dd> -</dl> - -[[!tag open_issue_documentation]] diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/what_we_need.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/what_we_need.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 4511eb64..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/what_we_need.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,39 +0,0 @@ -We created a list of the things we still need for using the Hurd for in our day-to-day activities (work or hobby). - -As soon as these issues are taken care of, the Hurd offers everything we need for fullfilling most of our computing needs on at least one of our devices: - -- USB (5): Arne, ms, Michael, Emilio, antrik²³ -- Wireless (5): Arne, ms, Carl Fredrik, Michael (netbook), antrik (notebook) -- Sound (4): ms, Carl Fredrik, Michael, antrik² - -- SATA (2): Michael, (Emilio) -- Tested for modern machines°¹ (2): Emilio, antrik (notebook) -- Stable Xorg° (2): Emilio, antrik -- PPPoE (2): Carl Fredrik, antrik² - -- Graphical Desktop (1): Emilio -- Full featured high-resultion console which doesn’t need X (1): antrik -- Switching between console and X° (1): antrik -- full-featured browser (i.e. Firefox)°⁵ (1): antrik -- NFS working for climm, w3m and git (1): antrik⁴ -- mplayer with win32codecs (1): antrik³ -- gnash or alternatives (1): antrik³ - -°: Very likely needed by more people, but not named as most pressing issue. -¹: It’s unclear on which processors the Hurd would have problems. Please report it if you have one! -→ [info](http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-hurd@gnu.org/msg19105.html) -²: Would be OK to use a router box instead. -³: Not critical but would be convenient. -⁴: Only while *not* using Hurd as the only machine. -⁵: [We’re close to that](http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-hurd@gnu.org/msg19177.html). - -So, if one of these issues seems to be interesting for you, or you think “I can do that easily”, -why not become a Hurd hacker and add your touch? :) - -You can reach us in the [[mailing_lists]] and in [[irc]]. - -The sourcecode is in our [[source_repositories]] (git). When you want to check sources relevant for you, [DDE](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/incubator.git/tree/?h=dde) might be a good place to start for wireless and sound. USB on the other hand might need work in [gnumach](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/gnumach.git/) ([[hacking_info|microkernel/mach/gnumach]]). - -Besides: “The great next stuff” is in the [incubator git repo](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/incubator.git/), including (among others) [clisp](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/incubator.git/tree/?h=clisp) (translators in lisp) and [nsmux](http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/hurd/incubator.git/tree/?h=nsmux) (dynamically setting translators on files for one command by accessing `file,,translator`). - -Happy hacking! diff --git a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/xkb-woes-trying-to-get-a-german-keyboard-layout.mdwn b/community/weblogs/ArneBab/xkb-woes-trying-to-get-a-german-keyboard-layout.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 693168a4..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/ArneBab/xkb-woes-trying-to-get-a-german-keyboard-layout.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,47 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled -[[GNU Free Documentation License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -Yesterday I spent a few hours trying to get my german keyboard to let me use my umlauts (and to let me type without having to hunt down the right keys), but without much luck. - -I got xkb installed after following this FaQ answer: - -- <http://www.gnu.org/s/hurd/faq.en.html#q4-4> - -and this info: - -- <http://people.debian.org/~mbanck/hurd-console.default> - -(you can find the second under /etc/default/hurd-console ). - -But I didn't get it to work. - -### What I did in short: - - -First I got the needed apt-sources: - -- <http://debian.duckcorp.org/> - -Then I installed the xkb console: - -- `apt-get install console-driver-xkb` - - -And set it in the file /etc/default/hurd-console - - -Sadly it didn't work, but maybe this posts will give You the needed headstart for success :) (I'd be glad to see a guide from you!). - - -Some additional info: - -- <http://kerneltrap.org/node/420> -- <http://www.bddebian.com/~wiki/hurd/console/> - diff --git a/community/weblogs/antrik.mdwn b/community/weblogs/antrik.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 6db88dd9..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/antrik.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,15 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -[[!inline -pages="community/weblogs/antrik/* and !community/weblogs/antrik/*/*" -show=0 -actions=no -rootpage="community/weblogs/antrik" postformtext="Add a new entry named:"]] diff --git a/community/weblogs/antrik/hurd-mission-statement.mdwn b/community/weblogs/antrik/hurd-mission-statement.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 592e176a..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/antrik/hurd-mission-statement.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,39 +0,0 @@ -For a while I have been thinking about the lack of a roadmap for the -Hurd; but now I realized that we lack something even more fundamental: a -simple mission statement -- i.e. saying where we want to go, rather -than how we want to get there. I think many of the problems we have are -directly or indirectly related to that. - -As we didn't have such a mission statement so far, the people currently -involved have vastly different ideas about the mission, which of course -makes it a bit hard to come up with a suitable one now. However, I -managed to come up with something that I believe is generic enough so -all contributors can subscribe to it: - -> *The mission of the Hurd project is: to create a general-purpose -> kernel suitable for the GNU operating system, which is viable for -> everyday use, and gives users and programs as much control over their -> computing environment as possible.* - -*"Suitable for GNU"* in the first part implies a number of things. I -explicitely mentioned *"general-purpose"*, because this an important -feature that sets the Hurd apart from many other microkernel projects, -but isn't immediately obvious. - -I didn't mention that it must be entirely free software, as this should -be obvious to anyone familiar with GNU. - -Another thing I did not mention, because it's too controversial: how -much UNIX do we need? I think that being suitable for GNU requires a -pretty high degree of UNIX compatibility, and also that the default -environment looks to the user more or less like UNIX. However, some -people claimed in the past that GNU could do without UNIX -- the wording -used here doesn't totally preclude such views. - -The second part also leaves a lot of slack: I for my part still believe -that a Mach-based Hurd can be viable for everyday use; but those who -think that a microkernel change is required, should be happy with this -wording as well. - -The third part tries to express the major idea behind the Hurd design in -the most compact and generic way possible. diff --git a/community/weblogs/antrik/plan9-and-the-hurd-major-differences.mdwn b/community/weblogs/antrik/plan9-and-the-hurd-major-differences.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 9e6143bf..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/antrik/plan9-and-the-hurd-major-differences.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,50 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -[[!meta title="Major differences between Plan9 and the Hurd"]] - -There are some similarities between the Hurd and Plan 9 regarding the file -system handling -- but there are also very fundamental differences which go -far beyond monolithic vs. microkernel design: - -- The Hurd is UNIX (POSIX) compatible - -- While (almost) all services are attached to the file system tree, not - all services actually export a file system interface! - - Personally, I advocate using FS-based interfaces as much as possible. - Yet, there are some cases where they get very awkward and/or - inefficient, and domain-specific interfaces simply make a lot more - sense. - - Also, some Hurd services are indeed used to implement the file systems - in the first place -- they work below the FS level, and obviously - can't use an FS interface! - -- File systems are completely decentralized -- clients always talk to - the FS servers directly, without any central VFS layer. (I don't think - that's the case in Plan 9?) - - This offers much more flexibility -- the way the FS interfaces - themselves work can be modified. Many things can be implemented as - normal translators, that would require special VFS support on other - systems. (Extended attributes, VFS-based union mounts, local - namespaces, firmlink, magic file name suffixes etc.) - -- The system design allows users and applications to change almost all - aspects of the system functionality in the local environment easily - and without affecting other parts of the system. - - (This is possible with Plan 9 to some extent; but the Hurd allows it - at a much lower level -- including stuff like the filesystem - interfaces, access control mechanisms, program execution and process - management, and so on.) - -I hope I didn't forget any major differences... diff --git a/community/weblogs/hook.mdwn b/community/weblogs/hook.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index e9e083dc..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/hook.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,25 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -Well as [[weblogs/ArneBab]] asked me to, I made a blog here in the Hurd's community section. - -So I suppose it's time for me to introduce myself. I'm a lawyer student just short of my masters' (called "diploma" here in Slovenia) and a hacker by heart. I've been using GNU/Linux for over a decade now, started on Slackware and continued on Gentoo. I try to give back to the community by being an active member (posting bugs and whatnot), coordinating the local FSFE Fellowship group and lately also lending a hand to the Gentoo Licenses team. I keep a [website and blog](http://matija.suklje.name) of my own and occasionally even write some short sad piece of sloppy code. - -Small disclaimer about my coding abilities: - - 10 IANAC IAAL - -For those who wonder about what IANAC IAAL means — it's the oposite of IANAL IAAC and means "I Am Not A Coder, I Am A Lawyer" ;) - -[[!inline -pages="community/weblogs/hook/* and !community/weblogs/hook/*/*" -show=0 -actions=no -rootpage="community/weblogs/hook" postformtext="Add a new entry named:"]] diff --git a/community/weblogs/hook/Post.mdwn b/community/weblogs/hook/Post.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index 904ff372..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/hook/Post.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,27 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -You might wonder why this post is not titled "First Post" or anything similar showing off my arrival in the Hurd community. - -Well, that's both easy and hard to explain — easy, because it doesn't take much words and hard because of their impact. - -The thing is it may well be my first and last post here. - -I am not making this decision lightly, because I care a lot for FOSS and although I'm new and not much of a coder (`GOTO 10`), I can see how important GNU Hurd is and needs more advocates and contributors. - -Sadly, as I stated [on my normal blog](http://matija.suklje.name/?q=node/205), to be more help to the FOSS community, I actually have to help less. I have to make the painful choice to select from many FOSS-related things I care about deeply only a few I'm really good at and discard the rest. And since law is my forte, that's where I'll help and leave coding to those who are better at it. - -That too is freedom and probably the biggest burden of it. - -I'm pretty sure most people here haven't had the time to get to know me yet, but I'll still miss you. And thank you guys for your outstanding work in making the system that gives the user the most freedom possible! **Please, keep up the work!** - - *hook out → just out (hopefully not forever)* - -P.S. `10 IANAC IAAL` diff --git a/community/weblogs/tschwinge.mdwn b/community/weblogs/tschwinge.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index fc0d2ace..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/tschwinge.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,15 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -[[!inline -pages="community/weblogs/tschwinge/* and !community/weblogs/tschwinge/*/*" -show=0 -actions=no -rootpage="community/weblogs/tschwinge" postformtext="Add a new entry named:"]] diff --git a/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-23_split_patch_and_git_rebase_--interactive.mdwn b/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-23_split_patch_and_git_rebase_--interactive.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index bd08060e..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-23_split_patch_and_git_rebase_--interactive.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,545 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -[[!meta title="splitting a patch into three, and then some git rebase ---interactive"]] - -I was revisiting the issue of getting the Hurd's code base compiled with recent -versions of GCC. Specifically, there were a lot of duplicate symbols shown at -linking time, and all these were related to `inline` functions. Originally, in -2007, we had solved this problem already (or rather, shifted it) by using GCC's -`-fgnu89-inline` option, but as we [[!GNU_Savannah_patch 6840 desc="saw now"]], -that one obviously doesn't help anymore if third-party code is using the Hurd's -unfixed header files. - -So I was revisiting this issue. I was already prepared that this would take -some hours, with lots of editing, compiling cycles, plus some analyzing of the -binaries. So I made up a fresh repository for this work. - - $ mkdir hurd-ei - $ cd hurd-ei/ - $ git init - [...] - $ git remote add savannah git://git.savannah.gnu.org/hurd/hurd.git - $ git fetch - [...] - -Switch to a new topic-branch. - - $ git checkout -b master-ei savannah/master - Branch master-ei set up to track remote branch master from savannah. - Switched to a new branch 'master-ei' - -(*`ei`* is short for `extern inline`.) - -The first thing to do was to disable that `-fgnu89-inline` option, so I edited -`Makeconf` where it was added to `CFLAGS`. - -I started editing, compiling, editing, compiling, and so on. - -Finally, the tree was in a shape where everything was building fine and the -resulting libraries contained the symbols they should, etc. - -I committed the whole junk as one *big blob* commit, to store it in a safe -place (you never know with these Hurd machines...), and to continue working on -it the next day. - - $ git commit -a - -For the commit message, I already mostly assembled a `ChangeLog`-style log. -Then: - - $ git format-patch savannah/master.. - 0001-Bla.patch - -... and here is [[0001-Bla.patch.bz2]] (compressed). - - -The next day, a.k.a. today, in a different Git repository. - - $ git checkout -b master-fix_inline savannah/master - Branch master-fix_inline set up to track remote branch master from savannah. - Switched to a new branch 'master-fix_inline' - $ bunzip2 < ../some/where/0001-Bla.patch.bz2 | git am - Applying: Bla. - -The *big blob* is now on top of savannah/master (which was -`2772f5c6a6a51cf946fd95bf6ffe254273157a21`, by the way -- in case that you want -to reproduce this tutorial later, simply substitute `savannah/master` with -`2772...`). - -By then, I had come to the conclusion that the commit essentially was fine, but -should be split into two, and the `configure` hunk shouldn't be in there. So -be it. - -So, the `HEAD` of the active branch is our *big blob* commit that we want to -work on. Check with `git show HEAD`: - - $ git show HEAD - commit 93e97f3351337c349e2926f4041e61bc487ef9e6 - Author: Thomas Schwinge <tschwinge@gnu.org> - Date: Tue Jun 23 00:27:28 2009 +0200 - - Bla. - - * console-client/timer.h (fetch_jiffies): Use static inline instead of extern - inline. - * ext2fs/ext2fs.h (test_bit, set_bit, clear_bit, dino, global_block_modified) - (record_global_poke, sync_global_ptr, record_indir_poke, sync_global) - (alloc_sync): Likewise. - * libftpconn/priv.h (unexpected_reply): Likewise. - * term/term.h (qsize, qavail, clear_queue, dequeue_quote, dequeue) - (enqueue_internal, enqueue, enqueue_quote, unquote_char, char_quoted_p) - (queue_erase): Likewise. - * ufs/ufs.h (dino, indir_block, cg_locate, sync_disk_blocks, sync_dinode) - (swab_short, swab_long, swab_long_long): Likewise. - * term/munge.c (poutput): Use static inline instead of inline. - - * libdiskfs/diskfs.h: Apply inline optimization only ifdef - [__USE_EXTERN_INLINES]. Use __extern_inline instead of extern inline. - * libftpconn/ftpconn.h: Likewise. - * libpipe/pipe.h: Likewise. - * libpipe/pq.h: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/idvec.h: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/maptime.h: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/ugids.h: Likewise. - * libstore/store.h: Likewise. - * libthreads/rwlock.h: Likewise. - * libdiskfs/extern-inline.c: Adapt to these changes. - * libftpconn/xinl.c: Likewise. And don't #include "priv.h". - * libpipe/pipe-funcs.c: Likewise. - * libpipe/pq-funcs.c: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/maptime-funcs.c: Likewise. And remove superfluous - includes. - * libstore/xinl.c: Likewise. - * libthreads/rwlock.c: Likewise. - - * Makeconf (CFLAGS): Don't append $(gnu89-inline-CFLAGS). - * pfinet/Makefile (CFLAGS): Append $(gnu89-inline-CFLAGS). - - diff --git a/Makeconf b/Makeconf - index e9b2045..236f1ec 100644 - --- a/Makeconf - +++ b/Makeconf - @@ -65,7 +65,7 @@ INCLUDES += -I$(..)include -I$(top_srcdir)/include - CPPFLAGS += $(INCLUDES) \ - -D_GNU_SOURCE -D_IO_MTSAFE_IO -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 \ - $($*-CPPFLAGS) - -CFLAGS += -std=gnu99 $(gnu89-inline-CFLAGS) -Wall -g -O3 \ - +CFLAGS += -std=gnu99 -Wall -g -O3 \ - [...] - -We want to undo this one commit, but preserve its changes in the working -directory. - - $ git reset HEAD^ - Makeconf: locally modified - configure: locally modified - console-client/timer.h: locally modified - ext2fs/ext2fs.h: locally modified - libdiskfs/diskfs.h: locally modified - libdiskfs/extern-inline.c: locally modified - libftpconn/ftpconn.h: locally modified - libftpconn/priv.h: locally modified - libftpconn/xinl.c: locally modified - libpipe/pipe-funcs.c: locally modified - libpipe/pipe.h: locally modified - libpipe/pq-funcs.c: locally modified - libpipe/pq.h: locally modified - libshouldbeinlibc/idvec.h: locally modified - libshouldbeinlibc/maptime-funcs.c: locally modified - libshouldbeinlibc/maptime.h: locally modified - libshouldbeinlibc/ugids.h: locally modified - libstore/store.h: locally modified - libstore/xinl.c: locally modified - libthreads/rwlock.c: locally modified - libthreads/rwlock.h: locally modified - pfinet/Makefile: locally modified - term/munge.c: locally modified - term/term.h: locally modified - ufs/ufs.h: locally modified - -Now, `HEAD` points to the commit before the previous `HEAD`, i.e. `HEAD^`. -Again, check with `git show HEAD`: - - $ git show HEAD - commit 2772f5c6a6a51cf946fd95bf6ffe254273157a21 - Author: Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> - Date: Thu Apr 2 23:06:37 2009 +0000 - - 2009-04-03 Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> - - * exec.c (prepare): Call PREPARE_STREAM earlier to permit calling - finish_mapping on E even after errors, as is already done in do_exec. - - diff --git a/exec/ChangeLog b/exec/ChangeLog - index 5a0ad1d..a9300bf 100644 - --- a/exec/ChangeLog - +++ b/exec/ChangeLog - @@ -1,3 +1,8 @@ - +2009-04-03 Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> - + - + * exec.c (prepare): Call PREPARE_STREAM earlier to permit calling - + finish_mapping on E even after errors, as is already done in do_exec. - + - 2008-06-10 Samuel Thibault <samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org> - - * elfcore.c (TIME_VALUE_TO_TIMESPEC): Completely implement instead of - diff --git a/exec/exec.c b/exec/exec.c - index 05dc883..cb3d741 100644 - --- a/exec/exec.c - +++ b/exec/exec.c - @@ -726,6 +726,9 @@ prepare (file_t file, struct execdata *e) - - e->interp.section = NULL; - - + /* Initialize E's stdio stream. */ - + prepare_stream (e); - [...] - -Luckily, Git saves the previous (i.e. before the `git reset`) `HEAD` reference -as `ORIG_HEAD`. Have a look at it with `git show ORIG_HEAD` -- it contains the -*big blob* commit, including the preliminary commit message -- just what HEAD -was before: - - $ git show ORIG_HEAD - commit 93e97f3351337c349e2926f4041e61bc487ef9e6 - Author: Thomas Schwinge <tschwinge@gnu.org> - Date: Tue Jun 23 00:27:28 2009 +0200 - - Bla. - - * console-client/timer.h (fetch_jiffies): Use static inline instead of extern - inline. - [...] - - diff --git a/Makeconf b/Makeconf - index e9b2045..236f1ec 100644 - --- a/Makeconf - +++ b/Makeconf - @@ -65,7 +65,7 @@ INCLUDES += -I$(..)include -I$(top_srcdir)/include - CPPFLAGS += $(INCLUDES) \ - -D_GNU_SOURCE -D_IO_MTSAFE_IO -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 \ - $($*-CPPFLAGS) - -CFLAGS += -std=gnu99 $(gnu89-inline-CFLAGS) -Wall -g -O3 \ - +CFLAGS += -std=gnu99 -Wall -g -O3 \ - [...] - -OK, now let's pick the files that we want to have in the first of the -envisioned two commits: these are the *static inline instead of extern inline* -and *apply inline optimization only...* sections. - - $ git add console-client/timer.h ext2fs/ext2fs.h [...] libthreads/rwlock.c - -Oh, we forgot something: now that we're preparing this stuff to go into the -*master* repository, update the copyright years. Edit, edit, edit, and then, -again: - - $ git add console-client/timer.h ext2fs/ext2fs.h [...] libthreads/rwlock.c - -Now Git's staging area contains the changes that we want to commit (and the -working directory contains the rest of the *big blob*). Commit these `add`ed -files, and use *big blob*'s commit message as a template for the new one, as it -already contains most of what we want (don't forget to chop off the unneeded -parts). - - $ git commit -c ORIG_HEAD - Waiting for Emacs... - [master-fix_inline 51c15bc] Use static inline where appropriate. - 6 files changed, 50 insertions(+), 51 deletions(-) - $ git show HEAD - commit c6c9d7a69dea26e04bba7010582e7bcd612e710c - Author: Thomas Schwinge <tschwinge@gnu.org> - Date: Tue Jun 23 00:27:28 2009 +0200 - - Use static inline where appropriate and use glibc's __extern_inline machinery. - - * console-client/timer.h (fetch_jiffies): Use static inline instead of extern - inline. - * ext2fs/ext2fs.h (test_bit, set_bit, clear_bit, dino, global_block_modified) - (record_global_poke, sync_global_ptr, record_indir_poke, sync_global) - (alloc_sync): Likewise. - * libftpconn/priv.h (unexpected_reply): Likewise. - * term/term.h (qsize, qavail, clear_queue, dequeue_quote, dequeue) - (enqueue_internal, enqueue, enqueue_quote, unquote_char, char_quoted_p) - (queue_erase): Likewise. - * ufs/ufs.h (dino, indir_block, cg_locate, sync_disk_blocks, sync_dinode) - (swab_short, swab_long, swab_long_long): Likewise. - * term/munge.c (poutput): Use static inline instead of inline. - - * libdiskfs/diskfs.h: Apply inline optimization only ifdef - [__USE_EXTERN_INLINES]. Use __extern_inline instead of extern inline. - * libftpconn/ftpconn.h: Likewise. - * libpipe/pipe.h: Likewise. - * libpipe/pq.h: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/idvec.h: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/maptime.h: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/ugids.h: Likewise. - * libstore/store.h: Likewise. - * libthreads/rwlock.h: Likewise. - * libdiskfs/extern-inline.c: Adapt to these changes. - * libftpconn/xinl.c: Likewise. And don't #include "priv.h". - * libpipe/pipe-funcs.c: Likewise. - * libpipe/pq-funcs.c: Likewise. - * libshouldbeinlibc/maptime-funcs.c: Likewise. And remove superfluous - includes. - * libstore/xinl.c: Likewise. - * libthreads/rwlock.c: Likewise. - - diff --git a/console-client/timer.h b/console-client/timer.h - index 4204192..5e64e97 100644 - --- a/console-client/timer.h - +++ b/console-client/timer.h - @@ -1,5 +1,7 @@ - /* timer.h - Interface to a timer module for Mach. - - Copyright (C) 1995,96,2000,02 Free Software Foundation, Inc. - + - + Copyright (C) 1995, 1996, 2000, 2002, 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. - + - Written by Michael I. Bushnell, p/BSG and Marcus Brinkmann. - - This file is part of the GNU Hurd. - @@ -54,7 +56,7 @@ int timer_remove (struct timer_list *timer); - /* Change the expiration time of the timer TIMER to EXPIRES. */ - void timer_change (struct timer_list *timer, long long expires); - - -extern inline long long - +static inline long long - [...] - -As you can see, `HEAD` now points to the new commit on top of the current -branch. (`ORIG_HEAD` doesn't change.) - -On to the next, and last one, only two changes should be left: the `Makeconf` -and `pfinet/Makefile` ones. - - $ git status - # On branch master-fix_inline - # Your branch is ahead of 'savannah/master' by 1 commit. - # - # Changed but not updated: - # (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed) - # (use "git checkout -- <file>..." to discard changes in working directory) - # - # modified: Makeconf - # modified: configure - # modified: pfinet/Makefile - # - # Untracked files: - # (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed) - # - # 0001-Bla.patch - # autom4te.cache/ - # hurd_extern_inline_fix.patch?file_id=18191 - no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a") - -Alright, there is as well still the `configure` hunk that we want to get rid -of. But first for the real second commit, after editing for again adding the -copyright year update: - - $ git add Makeconf pfinet/Makefile - $ git commit -c ORIG_HEAD - Waiting for Emacs... - [master-fix_inline 6a967d1] We're now C99 inline safe -- apart from the Linux code in pfinet. - 2 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) - -Check that we're in a clean state now: - - $ git status - # On branch master-fix_inline - # Your branch is ahead of 'savannah/master' by 2 commits. - # - # Changed but not updated: - # (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed) - # (use "git checkout -- <file>..." to discard changes in working directory) - # - # modified: configure - # - # Untracked files: - # (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed) - # - # 0001-Bla.patch - # autom4te.cache/ - # hurd_extern_inline_fix.patch?file_id=18191 - no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a") - -Oops, we forgot something... - - $ git checkout -- configure - -Now, our tree is clean again. (Check with `git status`.) - -By now, we came to the conclusion that the first of the two commits should have -been further split into two separate ones. Of course, essentially we would do -the same splitting again that we've done just now -- but how to easily modify -the first commit, now that we have another one on top of it? - -Alright, `git rebase --interactive` to the rescue -- let's interactively -*`rebase`* the last two commits, to modify them as wanted. - - $ git rebase --interactive HEAD~2 - Waiting for Emacs... - -Emacs wants us to tell which commits we want to keep as they are (`pick`), -which should be merged into others (`squash`), and which we want to `edit`. In -our scenario, we want to `edit` the first one and `pick` the second one. -Change the file thusly and close it. - - Stopped at 5becbb5... Use static inline where appropriate and use... - You can amend the commit now, with - - git commit --amend - - Once you are satisfied with your changes, run - - git rebase --continue - -We want to undo this first commit to split it into two. Again, use `git reset` -for that, while preserving the commit's changes in the working directory. - - $ git reset HEAD^ - console-client/timer.h: locally modified - [...] - -Pick the set of files that we want to have in the first of the envisioned two -commits: the *static inline instead of extern inline* section, and commit them, -again using the previous commit message as a template for the new one: - - $ git add console-client/timer.h ext2fs/ext2fs.h [...] term/munge.c - $ git commit -c ORIG_HEAD - Waiting for Emacs... - [detached HEAD 51c15bc] Use static inline where appropriate. - 6 files changed, 50 insertions(+), 51 deletions(-) - -Next part: *apply inline optimization only...*. Again, `git add` those files -that shall be part of the next commit, i.e. all remaining ones. As before, use -the previous commit message as a template. - - $ git add libdiskfs/diskfs.h [...] libthreads/rwlock.c - $ git commit -c ORIG_HEAD - Waiting for Emacs... - [detached HEAD 8ac30ea] [__USE_EXTERN_INLINES]: Use glibc's __extern_inline machinery. - 16 files changed, 508 insertions(+), 356 deletions(-) - -Now we're done with splitting that commit into two. (Check with `git status` -that we didn't forget anything.) What's missing is getting back the other -commit on top of the two now-split ones: - - $ git rebase --continue - Successfully rebased and updated refs/heads/master-fix_inline. - -Here we go. The other commit has been applied on top of the two new ones. - -Due to time-honored tradition, I always double-check what I have just -committed, before distributing it to the world: - - $ git log --reverse -p -C --cc savannah/master.. - -... and promptly, I recognize some changes that shouldn't be in there: when -using it on some files, Emacs' `copyright-fix-years`, aside from indeed fixing -the list of copyright years, and adding the current year, also changed *GPL -... version 2* into *version 3*, which would be nice, but which we can't do for -the moment. The error is present only in the first and second commit. If it -were in only in the third (the last) one, simply editing the files, and then -using `git commit --amend` would be the solution. But again there is the -problem about how to modify the first (`HEAD~2`) and second (`HEAD~1`, or -`HEAD^`) commit now that there is another one on top of it. By now, we know -the solution: - - $ git rebase --interactive HEAD~3 - Waiting for Emacs... - -This time, we need to `edit` the first and second commits, and `pick` the third -one. - - Stopped at ffd215b... Use static inline where appropriate. - You can amend the commit now, with - - git commit --amend - - Once you are satisfied with your changes, run - - git rebase --continue - -`git show` (which defaults to showing `HEAD`, by the way) can again be used to -have a look at the current `HEAD` (which is the first of the three commits), -and then we revert the unwanted changes in the editor, resulting with the -following changed files: - - $ git status - # Not currently on any branch. - # Changed but not updated: - # (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed) - # (use "git checkout -- <file>..." to discard changes in working directory) - # - # modified: ext2fs/ext2fs.h - # modified: libftpconn/priv.h - # modified: term/munge.c - # modified: term/term.h - # modified: ufs/ufs.h - # - # Untracked files: - # (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed) - # - # 0001-Bla.patch - # autom4te.cache/ - # hurd_extern_inline_fix.patch?file_id=18191 - no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a") - -Then, we can -- as `git rebase` suggested above -- *amend* the existing `HEAD` -commit with these changes (`--amend` and `--all`), reusing `HEAD`'s commit -message without spawning an editor (`-C HEAD`): - - $ git commit --amend -C HEAD --all - [detached HEAD c6c9d7a] Use static inline where appropriate. - 6 files changed, 45 insertions(+), 46 deletions(-) - -Continue with the next commit: - - $ git rebase --continue - Stopped at 8ac30ea... [__USE_EXTERN_INLINES]: Use glibc's __extern_inline machinery. - You can amend the commit now, with - - git commit --amend - - Once you are satisfied with your changes, run - - git rebase --continue - -Again, have a look at the commit (`git show`), revert the unwanted changes, -*amend* `HEAD`, and continue to the next commit: - - $ git commit --amend -C HEAD --all - [detached HEAD 9990dc6] [__USE_EXTERN_INLINES]: Use glibc's __extern_inline machinery. - 16 files changed, 500 insertions(+), 348 deletions(-) - $ git rebase --continue - Stopped at 6a967d1... We're now C99 inline safe -- apart from the Linux code in pfinet. - You can amend the commit now, with - - git commit --amend - - Once you are satisfied with your changes, run - - git rebase --continue - -Two files are left to be edited (`git show`, etc., again), and finally: - - $ git commit --amend -C HEAD --all - [detached HEAD 241c605] We're now C99 inline safe -- apart from the Linux code in pfinet. - 2 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) - $ git rebase --continue - Successfully rebased and updated refs/heads/master-fix_inline. - -That's it. `git log --reverse -p -C --cc savannah/master..` now looks as nice -as can be. - - -Of course, this is only a small insight of what is possible to do with `git -rebase` and friends -- see the manual for further explanations. diff --git a/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-23_split_patch_and_git_rebase_--interactive/0001-Bla.patch.bz2 b/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-23_split_patch_and_git_rebase_--interactive/0001-Bla.patch.bz2 Binary files differdeleted file mode 100644 index 4a682c86..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-23_split_patch_and_git_rebase_--interactive/0001-Bla.patch.bz2 +++ /dev/null diff --git a/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-24_importing_from_gnu_arch_into_git.mdwn b/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-24_importing_from_gnu_arch_into_git.mdwn deleted file mode 100644 index f397e75b..00000000 --- a/community/weblogs/tschwinge/2009-06-24_importing_from_gnu_arch_into_git.mdwn +++ /dev/null @@ -1,104 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc."]] - -[[!meta license="""[[!toggle id="license" text="GFDL 1.2+"]][[!toggleable -id="license" text="Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this -document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or -any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant -Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license -is included in the section entitled [[GNU Free Documentation -License|/fdl]]."]]"""]] - -[[!meta title="converting from GNU arch to Git -- without direct repository -access"]] - -I wanted to import an old GNU arch repository into Git, but only had HTTP -access via ArchZoom. I spent quite some time to try teaching `git archimport` -to use HTTP access to that repository, but this didn't work out. Too bad -- -but at least, using ArchZoom, I was able to get the individual revisions' -tarballs: - - $ ls -1 *.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--base-0.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-1.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-10.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-11.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-12.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-2.tar.gz - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-3.tar.gz - [...] - bpf--devel--0.0--patch-9.tar.gz - bpf--release--0.1--base-0.tar.gz - bpf--release--0.1--patch-1.tar.gz - bpf--release--0.1--patch-2.tar.gz - [...] - bpf--release--0.1--patch-8.tar.gz - -I unpacked these: - - $ for f in *.tar.gz; do tar -xz < "$f" || echo >&2 "$f" failed; done - -The last revision's tree apparently contains all previous revisions' commit -information (author, date, message), so use that: - - $ cp -a ↩ - bpf--release--0.1--patch-8/{arch}/bpf/bpf--devel/bpf--devel--0.0/info@hurdfr.org--hurdfr/patch-log ↩ - d-patch-log - $ cp -a ↩ - bpf--release--0.1--patch-8/{arch}/bpf/bpf--release/bpf--release--0.1/info@hurdfr.org--hurdfr/patch-log ↩ - r-patch-log - -... and extract the information that we need: - - $ base=bpf--devel--0.0-- && ↩ - for f in d-patch-log/*; do ↩ - grep < "$f" ^Creator: | head -n 1 ↩ - | { read j c && ↩ - echo "$c" | sed s%' <.*'%% ↩ - > "$base""$(basename "$f")".author_name && ↩ - echo "$c" | sed -e 's%.*<%%' -e 's%>.*%%' ↩ - > "$base""$(basename "$f")".author_email; } && ↩ - grep < "$f" ^Standard-date: | head -n 1 | { read j d && echo "$d" ↩ - > "$base""$(basename "$f")".author_date; } && ↩ - { grep < "$f" ^Summary: | head -n 1 | { read j m && echo "$m"; } && ↩ - echo && sed < "$f" '1,/^$/d'; } ↩ - > "$base""$(basename "$f")".log ↩ - || echo >&2 "$f" failed; ↩ - done - $ base=bpf--release--0.1-- && ↩ - for f in r-patch-log/*; [...] - -(Of course, I could have used something more elaborate than shell scripting...) - -Remove the GNU arch stuff that we don't need anymore: - - $ find bpf--*/ -type d \( -name {arch} -o -name .arch-ids \) -print0 ↩ - | xargs -0 rm -r - -The `base-0` revisions are actually either empty (the `devel` one) or -equivalent to the previous revision (the `release` one), so remove these: - - $ rm -rf bpf--devel--0.0--base-0 bpf--release--0.1--base-0 - -Finally, import all the other ones: - - $ mkdir g && ( cd g/ && git init ) - $ for d in bpf--d*-? bpf--d*-?? bpf--r*; do ↩ - test -d "$d"/ || continue && ↩ - ( cd g/ && ↩ - rsync -a --delete --exclude=/.git ../"$d"/ ./ && ↩ - git add . && ↩ - GIT_AUTHOR_NAME="$(cat ../"$d".author_name)" ↩ - GIT_AUTHOR_EMAIL="$(cat ../"$d".author_email)" ↩ - GIT_AUTHOR_DATE="$(cat ../"$d".author_date)" ↩ - git commit -F ../"$d".log -a ); ↩ - done - -Voilà! - - -**Update 2009-06-25:** - -Half a day later, [[HurdFr]] published a `git archimport`-converted repository --- which was *identical* to my hand-crafted one (apart from having -`git-archimport-id:` tags in the commit messages, and the first (empty) commit -not being stripped off). :-) |